Hear Christine Gu’s Inspiring NFT Entrepreneurial Journey & What You Need to Know to Get Started! - #56

Show Notes

In this episode, Lori Vajda and Nola Boea explore the exciting new business opportunities awaiting in the emerging Non-Fungible Token (NFT) market with entrepreneur, NFT Mini Monkey Mafia co-founder and graphic artist, Christine Gu. 

In part 1 of this two-part interview, Christine shares her startup story and the lessons she and her co-founder learned along the way. Come take a listen and find out how this creative entrepreneurial team launched 5,000 uniquely generated pieces of crypto art that sold out on the blockchain in three hours. It just might inspire you to explore the new and exciting business opportunities within the crypto NFT space

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In This Episode You’ll Learn 

• What Crypto Art is and how it prevents counterfeiting making it an ideal technology for nonprofits and for profit businesses as well as musicians, writers, legal, chefs, and many other businesses. 
• Why getting in on the ground floor of the NFT space is the best time to launch a business. 
• Learn the basics so you can have good conversations with experts in the field and marketplaces.
• As we demystify the terminology, and level the playing field through information so you make fewer mistakes.
• How anyone with a digital business idea or solution can get into the marketplace.

Key points Nola and Lori are sharing in this episode:

• (2:59:83) In the world of cryptocurrency, there's a huge gender gap. Research shows that women make up only 15% of crypto users. And it's even a smaller number for NFT creators.  
• (8:44.79) Learn basic terminology used within the cryptocurrency space, including Ethereum, the currency used on many of the decentralized platforms on the blockchain.
• (15:43.59) Because you can build on top of Ethereum, more people are seeing the value and wanting to do business in this new economy where they can buy, sell and trade. 
• (23:13.27) One of the intriguing aspects of doing business on the blockchain is how it protects the creator or originator of the idea, art or solution greatly reducing the need for copyright.
• (33:14:16) Hear how the Mini Monkey Mafia collection originated and the assets sold on the NFT blockchain. 
  

Resources 
You can subscribe to Lori and Nola's show, (we love you and want to make it easy) on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audible, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Links: 
Christine's personal portfolio: https://christinegu.com/ 
Christine's Twitter: https://twitter.com/chr15tine_gu 
Mini Monkey Mafia OpenSea link: https://opensea.io/collection/minimonkeymafia 
Mini Monkey Mafia website: https://monkeymafia.co/ 
OpenSea - https://opensea.io/
Discord - https://discord.com/ 
Solidity - https://soliditylang.org/ 
This episode was supported by: Be-YOU-nique
ConvertKit: Our #1 Favorite Email Marketing Platform 
(This is an affiliate link)

Transcript

[00:00:00] Lori: Christie's auction house reported 93.2 million in NFT sales during the first half of this year. In fact, a whopping 2.5 billion in NFT sales were recorded in just the first six months of 2021. The market for non-fungible tokens, AKA NFTs is making a huge financial impact on the creative, digital, and business world.
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From musicians to visual artists from developers to furniture makers, to corporations, the world for where and how we do business is changing. So don't let the unfamiliar terms, technology and inexperienced fool you. Stick around listeners because this episode is for anyone who's been thinking about getting into the emerging NFT space, which makes this the perfect time for any bold and adventurous non-profit or for-profit entrepreneur to get started. 

[00:00:55] Announcer: You're listening to the sticky brand lab podcast, where time strapped professionals, like you learn how to create a business you love in as little as three hours a week. 

[00:01:08] Nola: The NFT business, unlike other industries is brand new and will be undergoing years of development before it fully matures. But for many, and women in particular, terms like blockchain, crypto mining, crypto wallets, and ether plus gas to mint, sound unfamiliar and therefore intimidating. We get it. It's one of the reasons we're talking to subject matter. Expert NFT, entrepreneur, and graphic artist, Christine Gu. The other is we want to demystify the terminology and level the playing field through information. So you can explore the new and exciting career as well as business opportunities within the crypto metaverse. Because NFTs aren't just for artists, musicians, celebrities, enterprise corporations, or tech geeks. These new marketplaces are perfectly designed to benefit small businesses as well as not for profits. But before we enlighten you, welcome to Sticky Brand Lab, the podcast where we share essential entrepreneurial tools, shortcuts, and advice from leading entrepreneurs, industry experts and our own real-world experience. So professional women, like you can mindfully launch your side business quickly and without breaking the bank or feeling overwhelmed because the only thing more empowering than knowledge is being able to take confident, decisive action.

[00:02:25] Lori: Business opportunities from all types of industries are getting into the new space and making sales worldwide. For example, platinum musician, Two Feet and 18-year-old visual artist FEWOCiOUS collaborated on four NFT works selling for more than $1 million. Argentine designer Andres Reisinger sold 10 virtual pieces of furniture for nearly $70,000 on an online NFT auction.

It's not just artists. Other types of entrepreneurs are seeing opportunities as well. Beyond developers, designers, and graphic artists, educators, businesses with loyalty programs, authors cause-related companies and charities are seeing opportunities. Really anyone with a digital business idea or solution can get into the marketplace. 

But here's something else you should know. In the world of cryptocurrency, there's a huge gender gap. Research shows that women make up only 15% of crypto users. And it's even a smaller number for NFT creators. 

[00:03:31] Nola: Although the NFT space resonates with more women compared to other crypto related industries, education awareness is still needed to boost participation. And that's why our guest, Christine Gu, is here with us today. Because of her background, experience and knowledge, we asked Christine to do two episodes with us. In this episode, we're focusing on her artwork and background, how she got started in the NFT space, and how she and her co-founder launched their NFT venture. We'll also break down the terminology of cryptocurrency and what that looks like in the NFT space. In our second episode, we'll focus more on the business operations aspect, including what it looks like for women getting into the heavily male dominated space. And Christine will share her experience, lessons learned and recommendations for women who are interested in launching their own business in the NFT metaverse.
So welcome Christine!

[00:04:25] Lori: Uh, Woohoo!

[00:04:27] Christine: Hello, hello, it's great to be on here. Thank you for this opportunity.

[00:04:31] Nola: Yay. 

[00:04:31] Lori: so glad that you are here. One of the reasons that we've learned that many women are hesitant to get into this space and start an NFT business of their own is because they don't know anyone in the space, or they haven't seen anyone with a business idea like theirs, so they don't know if or how they can fit into the space themselves. And of course, there's the actual doing business in the crypto world. It's so new and it's so unfamiliar. So can you tell us a little bit about you, your background and how you got into this space?

[00:05:06] Christine: So I'm the founder of the NFT collection Mini Monkey Mafia, which is an NFT collection of 5,000 uniquely generated images that are sold on the blockchain. Basically, what way that you could think about this is, each of these images holds a certain amount of value. We started them off at 0.02, Ethereum, which is the way that these images are bought and sold on the blockchain, which is the platform which their bought and sold on. 0.02 $ETH starts at around $60 to $70. And if you translate it over, which is actually on the cheaper end compared to other NFTs that started off at $100 or $200. I got into this space because I've heard about blockchain cryptocurrency and all these big words since around 2018. And I really started looking into it around 2019. However, it wasn't until I recently met my co-founder in the summer of 2021, that I was actually able to go full force into this world of NFTs. Um, essentially what happened is my co-founder and I are in similar entrepreneurship circles and we were in similar Discords and so, one day someone asked in discord, does anyone here know a good amount about NFTs? And everyone kept on putting his name in the chat. So I was like, okay, I got some time to spare. Might as well ask how to get started in blockchain, how to get started in NFTs. And so we set up a coffee chat and after an hour he asked if I wanted to start my own NFT collection, with him. And granted, before this interaction, we kind of knew who each other was in this social circle. And on top of that, we had an idea of what everyone's talents were. Because within this Discord, most of the people there were known for either being a really great developer or a strong designer. So I was more on the design side and I was working with the developer who is now my co-founder and that's how Mini Monkey Mafia started. But the blockchain space, which is completely new on the internet, I think in most cases, a lot of the people that I met learned about it because they had a friend that was in this space. And for me to come on this podcast, I want to be that friend to other people that might not have those immediate connections.

[00:07:21] Nola: Perfect. And that's why you're here. 

[00:07:24] Lori: Exactly. That's what we were hoping to as well, especially when you realize that the number of women being involved in this new venture, our opportunity is so small. We too wanted to make this more pedestrian, I guess, I don't know that that's the right word, but you're using language that's so unfamiliar even to my own ears that I'm thinking, okay, my, my file cabinet 

[00:07:53] Nola: I know, 

[00:07:54] Lori: well, define that. 

[00:07:55] Nola: right. Exactly. Before we get any further, it would be really great if you could explain some of the terminology. And listeners don't let the terminology frighten you. Just think of it this way. When I would go overseas, I would have to exchange my US Dollars for the currency of the country. And they were different sizes. They were different colors. They had different values. The numbers had way more digits on them than our dollars. And so it was awkward making transactions. I had to, do math in my head and I made some mistakes and I'm, hoping that cab driver had a really blessed day. But you know what, that awkwardness and that lack of knowledge of exactly how that worked, did not prevent me from going. And so we're really hoping, listeners, that you won't be intimidated and let that unfamiliarity prevent you from diving in, or at least getting a toe in. And besides, Christine has provided a cheat sheet that you will find on our resource page to help you out. So would you explain some of that terminology and get our toe in that water. 

[00:08:55] Christine: Yes. I just want to preface this by saying, I think the fact that I'm still learning a lot of these definitions and see how they're changing and then also like get used to these changes, it should serve as a source of hope that if you really want to get to this blockchain space or this NFT space and you feel like you don't know everything, even as a founder of the space, that's still learning and getting used to everything that's going on, and I've been able to establish a community and sell out my NFT collection. I think this just serve as, as long as you have the drive and you're willing to learn and make those connections and reach out, you can achieve the same thing. 

[00:09:29] Nola: That is encouraging. 

[00:09:30] Christine: So I think to begin with the NFT is the way that it is defined online and the way that I also like to define it is a unit of data stored in a digital ledger on the blockchain. So what does that mean? Cause I just gave you a ton of words. So the unit of data and essence, can be thought of like a one-of-a-kind sports trading card or like any trading card that you'd like, and the blockchain is kind of like the world that you can trade that card in. I grew up with Pokémon cards. So if I had a Pokémon card and I want to trade it with some of that knew nothing about Pokémon, they're in a completely different world because I'm in the world that understands the value of this card and what it can do for me as in it can give me access to different communities that also understand Pokémon. It can give me access to this entire different world of activities, and real-life games, meetups and so forth with other Pokémon players. But if you don't know what that card entails, then you can't get access to that world. So that's kind of like the world of the blockchain and that unit of data is the NFT or that, for example, but cards or for most entities, it's a picture. So it's a JPEG that gives you access to all these different communities and different perks. And so I think that's where a lot of the value of these non-fungible tokens, or NFTs comes from. It's those communities. And think of the token as kind of like a key. So once you buy it, you access all these different perks, communities, people, and so forth.

Um, Ethereum, is the currency that a lot of these decentralized platforms on the blockchain use and Ethereum itself is a de-centralized blockchain platform and these uses $ETH, which is oftentimes abbreviated as a dollar sign and E T H for the transactions. And this is like what Nola was saying about going to a different country. However, instead of physically traveling to a different country, you're traveling into a different world online. When you do that, you can make a lot of these transactions using Ethereum or using $ETH in order to purchase these things on the blockchain, such as NFTs. 

 Other topics or other definitions that I can define for now, are things like Solidity, which is the coding language used to build on top of the blockchain. So, for example, a real life we'll use maybe bricks, mortar, paint, and so forth to build buildings on these different worlds or these different neighborhoods or even communities. But because the blockchain is completely decentralized in online, we use Solidity in order to build on top of the blockchain platform. 

Smart Contracts are self-executing contracts that establish the relationship between the buyer and seller. And this is because within our own governments, there's not that much regulation in the cryptocurrency space. So you create these contracts between the people that you're working with and the people that are buying and selling in order to make sure that all the transactions are fair and well established and transparent between all the parties involved.

OpenSea is the online marketplace for buying and selling NFTs. This might be in real life, kind of like the comic book store, where you go in and you buy different sorts of comics or cards and so forth, OpenSea is kind of like that, where it's the open marketplace and you can buy and sell all these different NFTs that are on there.

And floor price, finally, is the lowest price of any NFT within a given collection. And so, for our collection, we started off as 0.02. Um, so that would be the starting floor price. If it goes up, if it goes down, it just depends on the value of each image that we put out. So, in a more metaphorical sense, that might be a bit more novel just based on the history. For example, if you have a deck of Pokémon cards or any trading cards, it's basically what's the lowest value card in that deck. And then what does it sell for it? And that would be the floor price. If you were to translate it into this NFT space.

[00:13:33] Nola: Ah, the floor price is the lowest value of the NFT in your collection. 

[00:13:38] Christine: Yes, essentially. Yes.

[00:13:39] Lori: I think one of the things that's really important to keep in mind, is this language is new. It's kind of like if any clubs started or you went to a foreign land to visit, you know, think of going to Paris, somebody's speaking French. Until your ears adopt to it, until you start applying some of your own phrases and using them, it all is tricky. It doesn't come out the way your brain thinks of it. So as you're listening and, or even myself, as I'm hearing the terms and reviewing them, until you get into the market and start applying it, it's just an idea. It's the practice that helps solidify it within you, that starts to make sense. So, I think it's really great that you gave us a starting point, but I just want listeners to know that it's okay that you're like hearing, Charlie Brown's teacher and want, want, want as she's talking. But as we talk about it more, you'll start to pick up some phrases and you'll be like, oh, I heard that before. Oh, I know what that means. Oh, I know how to do that. So you kind of have to get your ears used to something that's brand new.

[00:14:53] Nola: Yeah. You had talked about how NFT is traded with the currency of ether, and you explained what that looks like and how that's built by blockchain. 

[00:15:04] Christine: It's built ON the 

[00:15:05] Nola: ON the blockchain. Okay. So a term that I'm more familiar with is Bitcoin. Is that also not built on the blockchain? And what is the difference between the two? Why, why can you buy NFTs with Bitcoin? 

[00:15:19] Christine: I don't believe that you can. Bitcoin was the original decentralized currency. And that's how people really bought into it. That's why its value is so high because it was this alternative from the M1 or like the U S dollar, which a lot of people became super skeptical about during the pandemic, especially seeing how much money we printed. But you can't build anything on top of Bitcoin. It's just a decentralized currency. Ethereum, you can actually build on top of, which is why so many people are starting these different projects on it. And which is why there's this entire economy that's insisting on Ethereum. It's sort of like Bitcoin insofar as it's decentralized. So like the government doesn't regulate it at least to all their ability. But because of that, you have all of these different aspects of that, which is why I went to like Solidity, which is the tool that people use to bull top of Ethereum. Smart contracts, which is kind of like the legal department of Ethereum, where different individuals, developers, designers, and contractors come together and they're able to establish their own legal terms for their business.

And then the NFTs or other businesses that exist on top of Ethereum, it's basically just like those different marketplaces. But Bitcoin, you can't build on top of, it's just a form of transaction. I think in some cases you're able to buy things with Bitcoin, but that's all they translated into us dollars. Whereas for Ethereum, you can basically just buy and sell and trade using Ethereum all throughout.

[00:16:44] Nola: Interesting. 

[00:16:46] Lori: Keeping that in mind, we do have some things that we want to get some clarity on before we go in and explore more in the space and doing business. So from that perspective, you have blockchain and you have minting and you need gas.

[00:17:03] Christine: Yes.

[00:17:03] Lori: you talk about how you do just to get an NFT seems to do take a lot of calculation in your head.

[00:17:12] Christine: Yeah. I think the best way that I could describe it is how to visualize it was I recently minted my first NFT from another collection called Sonar Moji. And the way that they set up their UI was when you click buy the NFT and it mints, which is the process or this is the way that I would visualize the process of transferring the rights from the owner to the buyer. They actually had a little progress bar. So it was show you like it's 70% done. It's 80% done. It's 90% done and you got your NFT. And the gas prices are like an insanely high tax or tip that you have to add on. So for example, our mid-price was 0.02 $ETHs which is the starting price. This is what every one of them sells for. 

Gas is what you have to add on in order to make sure the transaction goes through. And gas fluctuates based off of how many transactions are happening in the marketplace and the price of $ETH and all these different other factors. That's why it fluctuates so much. It's unlike when you go to a restaurant, you always have to tip 15%, or if you go to in certain state, they have their set state tax. Gas fluctuates insanely throughout every single day. So there's days when gas is only $40. And so a 0.02 $ETH mint for us, which was originally $60 to $70 with gas would be $110.

But on other days, when gas is extremely high, we had two weeks straight where gas hit a thousand dollars at certain points. Then your $60 USD or 0.02 $ETH mint could easily cost $1,060. And so. That's going to be playing a major impact when it comes to the Ethereum marketplace, because people don't only have to consider how much $ETH they already have, but how much extra they can pay in order to mint their NFTs because of how much added on there is. 

[00:19:13] Nola: So it's not just the amount of $ETH, it's really that gas seems to represent a fluid marker of demand and supply. 

[00:19:22] Christine: Yes. absolutely. And gas isn't ether, just to clarify, like it's not USD all of a sudden, but it is sort of like an added tax or an added transaction fee for every single interaction. 

[00:19:33] Nola: That reflects the market price, basically. Wow, 

[00:19:36] Christine: Yes, 

[00:19:37] Nola: Fascinating. So one of the reasons we are so excited to have you here is because you're a very talented and creative woman in your industry. And as an entrepreneur, you're navigating this new space that is so highly male dominated. As a woman, why is it important to you to enter this space and what excites you about it? 

[00:20:02] Christine: I'm actually going to flip this question when I answer it, but I personally believe whether you are a woman or a man, you should go after what excites you the most. My co-founder and I actually have this entire doc and we list out, this is what gives me energy, and this is what drains me. And people always ask us, how do you guys keep going when you have so much on your plate? And the thing is, when you're doing something that you love, you don't get drained from it. You actually get more energy. And so for me, what I'm looking at, things that I do and things I love it is the arts. It is challenging myself to make good designs and it is pushing myself to become a better illustrator or better designer. And so I think getting into this industry as a woman, what has sustained me for so long, it's just this idea of being able to creatively express myself. And then all the other aspect of whether you are a male or female, the blockchain industry gives you so much more power over your art. And so one aspect of this is, I'm going to go into more definitions in a sec, but I'll, make sure to clarify it.

So for example, every single piece of art that I make on the blockchain has a unique address. and all the addresses are tracked. So for example, if I were to send you an NFT, the transaction will explicitly say, I sent this NFT to Lori, or I sent this NFT to Nola, and people can trace it all the way back. So if you guys sold it to your friends, your friends sold them to their friends, they can still trace it all the way back to me as the original artist. And that's a type of power that artists didn't have in the past. So you would go into these art museums or you go to these art galleries and people always forget who the artist was.

And that's why a lot of art was so undervalued for such a long time, because he was like, I enjoyed the arts, but who cares about the artist. And there was really no need. But now, because there are Walla addresses, there is a chain where you can see all these transactions, it gives a lot more power and a lot of credit that to these artists that spent so long making and perfecting their craft.

And I think that's one thing that drew me back into this space because you hear so many horror stories where you get a start as a designer, or you're getting started as an illustrator where a lot of people are just screwed over in this industry because I gave you my designs and there's no way to track you down unless I have a lot of lawyers which, started off as a broke college student, I didn't have that. But as a woman entering the space, I didn't enter the space because I thought that there was a need for women voices. It started off as me just really enjoying my art. But I think as I got into the space and started speaking to more women and seeing their perspectives. It's so important, not only as a designer, but also as a leader of a project to make a space where both genders or both sexes can come together and have very in-depth and nuanced conversations about where this entire industry goes. And that's one of my biggest goals. It's not just as a representative, but asking myself what exactly do I represent and how can I create the best experience as possible.

[00:23:13] Lori: You know, so much of what you're saying is reminding me when you're anybody who has an idea that intellectual property and people think, oh, well, then I need to copyright it. Copyrighting is very expensive by the way, but the NFT space does that for you. So you don't have to worry that your intellectual property is being copied by so many people, because now it has a platform that will always come back to you. 

[00:23:42] Christine: Yes. Absolutely.

[00:23:43] Lori: To me, that's the benefit. So this is a very much an emerging space and there's a high value for creators, but so few women are entering it. What do you think gets in the way of them taking advantage of this creator economy? you find it very exciting. So I guess I'm thinking if we can tap into what makes it so exciting for you, maybe, that can lower the hurdle for other women. Cause I, I agree with you when you're passionate about something and you get excited about something, it gives you energy, but this new platform, it's almost like for many, a brick wall rather than a little hurdle to get over.

[00:24:28] Christine: Yes. Oh man. Ah, I have so many ideas running through my head. I'm going to try to space them out in a way that like makes coherent sense. 

I've been very lucky to have both friends and also colleagues that are very interested in this space. So it made it easy for me to reach out to any of them and ask them just direct questions. How do I set up a wallet? How do I do this? How do I do that? And it was just very, very basic questions. Like I think my first question about the space was, what is Ethereum? And so I think, one thing, it might just be my personality type, but I don't feel that much shame asking really dumb questions because I'm like it's my time to explore and understand this world and try to frame my perspective as I know, and as I know myself. And so for me I was like, if this is an emergent space and it's only going to develop more, right now it's the earliest time I can ask these questions. It's only going to become later and later as I let time go by. So let's just ask all the stupid questions now. What's Ethereum? What's the wallets? Why do I have to wear a meta mask? (You don't have to wear a meta mask. It’s a Google Chrome extension.) And so for me, it was understanding what made me feel most comfortable in creating an environment in order for me to go in. So for me, I'm not comfortable sending cold emails to big voices in the NFT space. I didn't do that. I just reached out to my closest friends and asked them what they thought about the NFT space. That's how I got started. 

I think another thing that is a huge barrier to entry is finding a way to create. 'Cause I think as a creator myself, and as someone that is interested in learning more about the space, I think this is a task for both ends. So creating a space where people find value immediately. And one of the biggest barriers is when you go on YouTube or you go onto TikTok it's all about this hype. But the hype is very. How would I say this? I think philosophically it's a very dead thing. So it's the things I would say are dead is like fame. Money. Because there's nothing lively about it. It puts you in the space, but nothing about money excites people for years and years to come. It's because it doesn't evolve. It's just a dollar there. Of course, it's important, but it doesn't really evolve and grow with you. It's just there. Whereas other aspects like community, relationships, force you to constantly grow and understand yourself deeper and deeper. And when you have a lot of people in these communities, just talking about. How do we flip these JPEGs for like the next big million dollars? Or how do I make my next book? Or how do I become famous off of this? It's very intimidating because I never got into this space because I wanted a Lamborghini or because I wanted to be famous or well-known. I think creating a community space where people can go in and immediately make connections and friends is where you can see a lot of value. And even as a designer outside of the illustrating, for me, it's challenging myself and asking myself, how do I design experience that I liked in my past as someone in this NFT space and how to recreate those nuggets for people in my community. That's actually something my co-founder and I are constantly working on behind the scenes.

And then I think the last thing is, finding a lot of discoverability and seeing what resonates with you the most. What I love about this space and how it gives so much more power back to artists is that there's so many artists coming out now. So finding the art pieces that resonate the most with you, and going into those communities, connecting with those artists, seeing what they're doing, what tools they're using and building your community based off of what you love the most could really make a difference. Cause I think every single NFT community has a certain personality with it. Um, like Bored Apes, which is like the OG one. It's known for having all these celebrities, big voices, and big influences, but then you have Pudgy Penguins and every single time I see those cute penguins, I'm like, oh, it's friendly people, really cute, really cute personas.

And I think finding the art that resonates with you, it's going to make a huge difference. Even for our community, you can see how mine and my co-founder’s personality comes through not only in our art, but the way that the community is structured. The way that the artists carry themselves the way that the developers carry themselves, the way that the founders overall carry themselves is really going to reflect on how the community is shaped and structured. And so find the ones that you like. You don't have any obligations to stay in the communities that you don't like. but always feel free to explore it. I think that's my biggest piece of advice. Feel free to explore, figure out what fits for you and in this process, find a better way to understand yourself as well, to figure out who do you want around yourself in this NFT space, and who do you want to set boundaries around? 

[00:29:21] Nola: It sounds like you can practically recognize that by basically the vibe of the art that you see. Right. And so when you say it's resonating, it's like, literally that vibe is resonating. And I think I can relate to these people. And you almost get a preview of the community from the vibe that comes from the art. 

[00:29:41] Lori: So much of what you said, philosophically aligns with the goals that Nola and I have for Sticky Brand Lab and why it's important for us to establish this podcast as a way to support or develop a community for professional women who want to launch a side business and a way of doing entrepreneurship.

But the other piece that also resonates with me personally, is my husband really got into the NFT space and the art space, and he would show me the different art pieces and some of them I'd be like, Why is anybody spending that kind of time, energy, money to, to get involved? I don't even like that piece, but then he showed me something that I do like, and I'm like, oh, that's so neat. I want to see more of that. 

[00:30:34] Nola: Yes. 

[00:30:36] Lori: You kind of fall into it, which is how we got connected with you, Christine, is because he got into it and talked in the communities and put himself out there and made himself vulnerable and learning and then showed me some pieces. And of course, just like you said, I found some art pieces that I was really into.

And then he said, um, one of the designers wants to get on a podcast. What do you think? And I'm like, yes, I want to meet somebody that I can talk to about this.

[00:31:07] Nola: that's great. How 

[00:31:08] Christine: I love it. 

[00:31:10] Nola: What has been the most shocking discovery for you as an artist in the NFT space? 

[00:31:17] Christine: Honestly, I think, seeing how much the art took off. Like even going on Twitter and seeing my art as people's profile pictures, um, 

[00:31:27] Nola: Really? 

[00:31:28] Christine: Yeah. No. I think as an artist for a lot of artists I talk to, when you're looking at the same piece of art, because I think for the first set of collections or is the first set of monkeys, I was making them for two months straight. So when you look at your art piece for two months straight, the novelty wears off very quickly. And also like as the artists, you see everything that goes behind the scenes, 'cause it's just you. And you're like working with yourself every single day. So you're like, oh, maybe it will work. it seems fine, we'll just test it out. This is also my first NFT collection ever. I had no idea that this was going to take off the way that it did. And just to give you guys an idea of it, our website crushed eight times during our launch, because when we were buying the website, we were like, oh yeah, this is my first NFT. It's not going to take off. It's like a small side project. It's cool. So we bought an $8 server. I think for the whole year, the server cost $8.

[00:32:25] Lori: You're like now my server can't handle.

[00:32:28] Christine: Yeah. it crashed because the hype before launch, and then during the launch, our official sale, it crashed another eight times. And so we were just like, W what is going on. And I think now seeing people hype up the Twitter, and then have my images as their profile picture's the trippiest thing. Even a month later, I still have a processed everything because it's like, it moves so fast. And as an artist, I never saw myself in this exact space.

[00:32:57] Lori: You're, so into it in getting it done. Right. But then somebody steps back who has an appreciation of your hard work. And you're like, oh, it's so worth it. I'm so excited.

[00:33:11] Christine: Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:33:14] Lori: So you launched your NFT collection, Mini Monkey Mafia, or M M M in collaboration with your co-founder. Can you tell us more about the work that you two did and your collection, and just even the thought process that went into developing that collection?

[00:33:31] Christine: Absolutely. I'll just tell the story about how it happened and then I'll be framing each aspect. So it started off as us being both very interested in the NFT space. And so we got into it because I think one, it was a really amazing learning opportunity and it was pretty early on in the NFT space where there weren't as many launches. And so for us, the logic was, we'll get in. We'll be able to learn a lot if we ended up selling out, which we ended up doing, but that was our ultimate goal. We didn't expect to sell out, but for us it was like if we sell out, that's super cool. We'll see what happens after. That was the basis of our thought process. It was mainly just a really cool learning opportunity in this emerging space. 

I think having other aspects of the team work out and the way that my co-founder dynamic worked, it was a very, very lucky match. I would not recommend this for finding your co-founder for an NFC collection, but my co-founder and I knew each other for two days or two meetings. And we were like, you want to make an NFC collection? And we were both like, yeah, sounds fun. Let's do it. and that's how it started. But everything that we set up along the way, from boundaries to communications, to expectations, to what gives us energy and what doesn't, is what has sustained this relationship for the long term. It's always, no matter what our priorities are, how's the other person doing? And then we'll work off of that. Because there's one thing between time management, as in, we said, we were going to do this this time, versus this person has a lot going on in their personal life. I can't push them to do any more. And that's just the way it is. We'll find something else. Or one of us will hold down the fort at the time being. 

Other aspects of it are things that we found out about ourselves as we moved on. One thing is like, how do you build, do you, are you someone that likes to launch something or is someone that likes to sustain and maintain it? And that's one thing that we had to figure out in our dynamic. And the other part is what type of personality do you guys show for yourselves online and how do people perceive you? And we have this theory that the only co-founder relationships that will ever work is if one person is boring, the other one is crazy.

[00:35:44] Lori: Oh God, Nola, she's been in our head and gone on our journey and she's just saying, look, we followed yours. So don't, don't even worry about it.

[00:36:01] Christine: So my co-founder did all the development and marketing pre-launch and I took over a little bit for community management and just talking to people post-launch. Then for me, I mainly just sit all the arts, designing the website, designing all the monkeys, designing all the accessories and so forth. And that was when I think we established the precedent for all our communication, because our rule was no matter, even if it's the smallest thing but it bothers us, we bring it up.

For example, when it came to the arts, even if the blue was like one shade or one tint too dark, we brought it up. We went back to the drawing board. We fixed it. If the website was a little bit off and the spacing was a little odd, we brought up. And I told him, he fixed it. And I think that's set out a really strong foundation for all the creativity, because in order, at least in my case, in order to, for creativity to flourish, you have to have those very strong boundaries in place to understand, like, this is what I can work with, this is why I can't. Because when you have way too much freedom that I'm like, I can literally just draw anything. And I have no idea where I'm going, but if there's way too many restrictions, I don't know if I can even launch this without breaking any of those barriers. But having those strong boundaries and having that strong communication there, I think that's what set the foundation for the Mini Monkey art to be the way that it is and for it to take off the way that we didn't even expect for it to do so. 

[00:37:28] Nola: That's really insightful. I love the way you described it. So together with you being the actual designer, you created what? 5,000 images. Okay. Just on a tactical perspective, what software, how do you make 5,000, NFT images. I'm, I'm just familiar with your classic designer software suite, and JPEGs on a website. 

[00:37:56] Christine: All right. I don't think I've heard of anyone that has used the software, at least in the way that we've used it. So I use this one software called Figma, and it's mainly for developing apps and websites where people will go in, they'll design their app screens on there. You can actually export them in HTML and CSS. and then they can become actual apps that you send out to developers to make for you. And that's originally what I used for it when I'm in my product design. But Figma also has this really great component called vectors. Basically, it starts off as squares and circles and you can actually mold them to look like different shapes. And so for hours on end, I would just be molding these squares and circles into these final monkey shapes. And that's actually how Mini Monkey Mafia monkeys were made. It was just a series of squares and circles that I molded for 24 hours at a time and we layered each one on. So we created the base for each of the monkeys, which is how they all look the skin. So you have the base brown monkey, but you also have like the rainbow skin, the cyborg skin. Those are our squares and circles that we molded and Figma. 

On top of that, you have the eyes. So we've made all of those separately, the mouths, the outfits, the earrings, and so forth. And then I would send all the layers to my co-founder separately. And then he will put them in the script that he wrote in Python and he put it into Photoshop. And so all the layers were randomized and that's how we didn't have to make 5,000 of them individually. But we just made all the layers. I think in total there's 128 different traits or accessories that you can mix and match up in order to make the monkeys as they are right now.

[00:39:39] Lori: That's amazing. 

[00:39:41] Nola: I know we're going to get more in depth into this topic, in our part two, but generally speaking, before we close, what advice do you have for aspiring artists or entrepreneurs who are maybe thinking about maybe they can now start looking into entering that NFT space? 

[00:40:03] Christine: Yes. I think aside from any craft or anything that you do be very, very picky with who you work with, who you hire, who you surround yourself with, because especially the space where there isn't that much regulation and whether or not we want the government regulation I'm personally against it, but whether or not we want that regulation. You're in a space where you really have to look out for yourself. And this is another thing that my co-founder and I have. If there's one person in a meeting that might want to set up a partnership with us, but one of us doesn't feel a hundred percent on board with it, we scratch that partnership 100%. Because our logic is, if something happens with that collection or that individual, we might also be liable. And we don't want to be in a position where at any time we had that leverage of saying, I told you so. It's that breaks apart a ton of relationships. It's not about who's right and who's wrong. It's more about how do we work through this together. And we don't want to put ourselves in a position that jeopardizes that. So be very, very weary of who you surround yourself with and how that dynamic goes. Because even if you're working with a team. 

Like between my co-founder and I, the reason why we were so hesitant to expand the core team is we have to also make sure that their dynamic fits with ours. And then, does their working style and their communication style fit in. And the only way you can allow both parties on your team, or even as a solo entrepreneur, working with people on the side, the only way you can maximize your ability and bring yourself to the highest potential is if you're able to feel safe in a space where the people around you support you, the people around you are there for you. And you're able to speak freely and express yourself in order to see what works and what doesn't.

[00:41:51] Lori: That is fantastic business advice. 

[00:41:54] Nola: For any space, 

[00:41:55] Lori: Yeah, it is absolutely. I mean, it just, it's just good smart entrepreneur advice.

[00:42:02] Nola: Yeah, 

[00:42:03] Christine: I hope so.

[00:42:04] Lori: It is. Thank you, Christine, for being a guest. If someone wants to learn more about you, your artwork or Mini Monkey Mafia, where should listeners go and how can they connect with you?

[00:42:17] Christine: You can find us on Twitter at Mini Monkey Mafia, which also links to a discord and our OpenSea but if people want to connect with me personally, I have my website, which is ChristineGu.com. Or you can connect with me on Twitter, which is @Chr15tine_Gu, with the I S swapped out with a 15 and it's spelled C H R 1 5 T I N E underscore Gu.

[00:42:42] Lori: So listeners, be sure to come back for part two of our interview with Christine, where she's going to discuss the business aspects and operations of having a business venture in the NFT space. And she'll also be sharing some practical tips for women who are interested in getting into the heavily male-dominated industry.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We hope it makes all the difference in you getting started on your side business so you can create your best and most exciting life. Not sure how to turn your idea into a profitable side business? Contact us at stickybrandlab.com/contact. We'd be happy to help you. If you found the information shared here today, helpful let us know by posting here where you're listening or on our Facebook page, this way we can learn more about your business goals and ideas, as well as send you love, encouragement, and congratulate you on the amazing and courageous decision you've made. 

[00:43:40] Nola: Be sure to come back next Tuesday and every Tuesday for another informative, inspiring and motivating episode. And remember action creates results. So tap into your desire to create a business and brand you love by taking 1% action every day. Small steps, big effects. 

[00:43:58] Lori: Do you have questions about creating a personal brand side hustle or small business? Sign up for one of our clarity sessions for more information, contact us at stickybrandlab.com/contact.
 [OUT-TAKE]

[00:44:14] Lori: Other types of entrepreneurs are seeing I'm the one tripping over my tongue. 'I'm still thinking, did I say FEWOCiOUS right? 

[00:44:25] Nola: It's close enough.