#75: Imposter Syndrome: Archetypes, Symptoms & Overcoming It, with Michele Molitor

Show Notes

If you’ve ever felt like a fraud, you’re not alone. One study estimated that 7 in 10 adults experience it at some point or another. To understand how this negative pattern of thinking can lead to self-doubt and missed opportunities, co-hosts Nola Boea and Lori Vajda interviewed breakthrough expert Michele Molitor. Listen in as she identifies the 5 imposter syndrome archetypes and shares her tips for eliminating the roadblocks that stand in your way, so you can confidently pursue your goals.

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In This Episode You’ll Learn How to tell the difference between healthy self-doubt and imposter syndrome.

• The 5 Imposter Syndrome Archetypes.
• Impostor syndrome across racial, social and gender groups but can impact men and women differently.
• Tips for successfully dealing with imposter syndrome. 
• 
  

Key points Lori and Nola are sharing in this episode:

(5:57:32) Characteristics common to feelings, thinking and behaviors of imposter syndrome.
(10:57:51) How to distinguish between the internal negative dialogue you’re having with yourself, and the external toxicity the work environment is placing on you.
(12:54.23) The ways men and women experience Imposter Syndrome differently. 
(14:28.30) The five self-doubt archetypes explained. 
(18:46:50) Rapid Rewiring and how it works

Resources 
You can subscribe to Lori and Nola's show, (we love you and want to make it easy) on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audible, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Connect with Michele Molitor: [email protected] 
Website: www.MicheleMolitor.com 
Free Self-Doubt Archetype Assessment: https://bit.ly/Self-DoubtFinder
Free Upcoming Masterclass “Taming Your Self-Doubt”: https://bit.ly/TamingYourSelfDoubt
7-week Course “How To Become UnShakeable” starting on March 7th: https://bit.ly/HowToBecomeUnShakeable 
Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelemolitor 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rapidrewire/  
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/michelemolitor/
Twitter: @michelemolitor https://twitter.com/michelemolitor 
This episode was supported by: Be-YOU-nique
ConvertKit: Our #1 Favorite Email Marketing Platform (This is an affiliate link)

Transcript

[00:00:00] Nola: Has this ever happened to you? You've decided to do something. Maybe it's to pit a really big prospect, create your first side business or apply for the promotion you've had your eye on. Yet, despite your decision, you can't seem to shake the feeling you're not quite good enough. You start questioning whether you have what it takes, despite receiving praise from colleagues and clients. If you doubt yourself, even when you're doing all the right things, you may have a case of Imposter Syndrome. Stay tuned friends. Because in this episode, we're talking to breakthrough expert, Michele Molitor. She's here today to share her tips and insights, so high achieving professionals like you can remove the blocks that stand in your way so you can confidently pursue your goals.

[00:00:44] Announcer: You're listening to the Sticky Brand Lab podcast, where time strapped professionals like you learn how to create a business you love in as little as three hours a week.

[00:00:56] Lori: Here's a question for you, Nola. What do Charlize Theron. Viola Davis, Sheryl Sandberg, former First Lady Michelle Obama, and Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor, all have in common?

[00:01:11] Nola: Well, maybe they've all been in people magazine? I'm not sure you tell me.

[00:01:16] Lori: Oh, that's probably true. But in this case, they've all confessed at one time or another to experiencing Imposter Syndrome. Have you ever experienced self-doubt that happens with Imposter Syndrome?

[00:01:30] Nola: Oh, yeah. I have been,

[00:01:33] Lori: Do tell.

[00:01:34] Nola: I don't know if I want to. I have certainly been in forums where I felt like I don't belong here. Everybody is smarter than I am. They have no idea that I have no idea. And what's interesting is that the smart people are asking the same questions I had. It's just, I felt too stupid to ask them. And they didn't. Yes. I can say that I I've experienced that.

[00:01:57] Lori: I think most of us have experienced it, whether we say it out loud or not, we definitely have those tapes going on in our heads. So, just to give you some context, it was actually two psychologists out of Georgia State University. Doctors, Pauline Clancy, and Suzanne Imes developed the concept, which was originally termed imposter phenomenon, in their 1978 study, which focused on high-achieving women. They theorized that despite outstanding academics and professional accomplishments, women who experienced the imposter phenomenon persist in believing that they are really not bright and have fooled everyone who thinks otherwise. And their findings have led to decades of thought leadership programs, initiatives to address Imposter Syndrome in academia, as well as in the workplace.

[00:02:56] Nola: Really. Well, although it was initially thought to only affect women, there's now a mountain of evidence that men experience Imposter Syndrome just as much as women.

[00:03:07] Lori: Really?

[00:03:08] Nola: Apparently. And to help us understand and address these underlying causes of imposter syndrome and ways to break free from feeling inadequate, we're talking to returning guest, Michele Molitor. Michele is the founder and CEO of Nectar Consulting, co-author of the best-selling book, Breakthrough Healing, and creator of an approach called Rapid Rewiring. Michele works with executives and entrepreneurs bringing over 30 years of experience, intuitive insights and strategic business savvy to help high achieving professionals remove the blocks created by Imposter Syndrome, anxiety, overwhelm, and burnout. Her clients report feeling and achieving greater confidence and self-worth, which has led to being more productive and satisfied in their careers and home life. She's here today to share her experience, insights and approach so you can not only survive bouts of Imposter Syndrome, but thrive beyond it. Welcome back Michele.

[00:04:05] Michele: Hey, thanks ladies. I'm so happy to be here with you on this beautiful day.

[00:04:11] Nola: So there's research suggesting that people who have depression and anxiety are particularly vulnerable to Imposter Syndrome. And rather than just occurring periodically the syndrome may for some people be chronic. So we're excited to talk to you about methods for reducing or dare we say, even eliminating Imposter Syndrome. But before you get into that, can you talk a little bit about your background, why you're so passionate about the topic and how it has impacted you?

[00:04:39] Michele: Thanks again for having me gals. I'm so happy to be here. So I have been a professional coach now for 20 years and a certified hypnotherapist for five years now, which helps me help people rewire their brains for new ways of being and thinking. It wasn't always this way for me. Prior to becoming a coach, I was a creative director in web development. And I had been picked, packed, and shipped and moved across the country to take up the helm of this hot dotcom startup as the new creative director, right as we were about to IPO. And it was fabulous. Except the market crashed that week instead. So we did an IPO, but we kept going and I kept building my team and I hired some really smart people. Except two of the people that I hired made it very clear that they didn't like working for a woman.

[00:05:30] Nola: Oh!

[00:05:31] Michele: Like literally getting up on my face. "I can't work for someone who's not smarter than me."

[00:05:35] Nola: Ooh!

[00:05:36] Michele: And I really was speechless. I had no idea what to say. I didn't have the hutzpah then that I do now. Now I'd have been given' him a few choice words and invited him to leave. And their behaviors continue to chip away at the little confidence that I had. And it created a massive case of Imposter Syndrome for me. I'm like, oh, someone's going to find out I don't have all the answers. I don't know everything that I think that I'm supposed to know, but I'm too afraid to ask. And if I ask then they'll find out and ah. And so it created a vicious downward spiral. Then ultimately it led to me getting fired. It was absolutely devastating. It crushed my ego. It shattered what little confidence I had left. It was at that point that my uncle suggested that I hire a coach. I was like, what? He's like, yeah, there's this thing called career coaches now. I was like, okay, great. Where do I find one? So through the magic of the internet, I hired my first coach and in the process of being coached, I really discovered my true calling and purpose. It was like all the cells in my body just came into alignment and my heart went, yes, this is what you're supposed to do. Instead of handing my resume to anyone and finding another job, I'm like, I'll just start my own company. Because of my Imposter Syndrome, I had so much shame around getting let go from my job that I was like, I'll just figure it out myself. And that's been my M O my whole life. I'll just figure it out on my own, because if I ask other people, I'll be rejected. So. I'll just do it myself. And so over the last 20 years as a coach, I've been a seeker I've constantly studying and researching, filling up my bucket with new trainings. I've been coaching for 20 years. Now, I see, oh, that was because of my Imposter Syndrome.
[00:07:25] Finally, one day. And literally I woke up. I'm like, I think I do know enough. I think I'm good. My bucket is full and I'm just declaring myself an expert. I've been doing this long enough. And so when I started to believe in myself that I was an expert, then so did everyone else.

[00:07:44] Lori: Wow.

[00:07:44] Michele: So, it has transformed my business in ways I never thought even possible.

[00:07:49] Nola: Wow. That's a fascinating story.

[00:07:51] Michele: Well, the interesting thing that I realize is that all this research around Imposter Syndrome, it makes it convenient for us to go, yes, there's this thing out there called Imposter Syndrome. And I can identify with that. But what I found through my 20 years of research is that the underbelly of Imposter Syndrome is really self-doubt. And self-doubt is in here. And so saying, oh, I don't believe in myself. That's way too scary. But I can say, oh yeah, I identify with Imposter Syndrome. So it's an out there versus in here difference.

[00:08:27] Nola: Can you explain how you define Imposter Syndrome?

[00:08:31] Michele: Sure. Imposter Syndrome is that prevalent unshakable feeling of I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough. Who am I? And I better figure it out because otherwise other people are going to figure out that I'm a fraud and I don't really know what I'm doing. And I fooled everyone. I've been lucky. I've been in the right place at the right time. I just knew the right person that got me to where I am today, not because of my own merits, not because of my own talents or expertise, but just because I happened to take the right steps in the right way at the right time. Versus someone who truly believes in themselves as like, not from a place of ego, but from the place of, I know what I know, and I'm really good at it. And my contributions make a huge difference.

[00:09:21] Lori: So, how do you separate your internal feeling from the external that the environment or your work environment might put on you?

[00:09:31] Michele: That's a great question, Lori, and everyone's life experiences are different. Every organization is different. Every culture inside of an organization is different. So, when you find yourself working inside of an organization, you get to notice the dynamics that are going on. You get to notice how it makes you feel. What's the tension in the air? Is it lifting you up or is it pulling you down? And the energy of that culture, of those people that you're working with day to day, how is that impacting you? How is it impacting you mentally, emotionally, even physically? Because if you find yourself in a toxic workplace, that can have a whole cascade of effects. And so all of those factors can start to then play into your own belief about self.

[00:10:26] Let me give you a great example. I'm currently working with a client who works in a very, very large organization, and she's been there 15 plus years. But the culture of the organization, the values of the organization, has changed. And it caused her to start doubting herself, doubting her methodologies as a leader. And that's when she reached out to me because she was feeling stressed, she was feeling burnt out. And so I've helped her kind of sort through what is hers, what's the internal conversation, and then what's the external toxicity that she's been taking in and how that's impacted her. So she could step back into her own confidence and then clearly decide what was right for her and what her next move needed to be.

[00:11:12] Nola: So let's say you do work with some PhDs and experts. And they really are smarter than you. How can you tell the difference between what's known as Imposter Syndrome, where I don't FEEL like I'm good enough, and a realistic reservations about your true abilities?

[00:11:33] Michele: So you get to pause and reflect. What do I know? I know what I know, based on my life experiences. And then there's my colleague here next to me with a PhD in physics, for example. Do I know that much about physics? No. Have I read about it? Yeah. Do I find it fascinating? Absolutely. But can I sit down and have a toe-to-toe conversation with that person? Oh, no. So being true to yourself and knowing that this is what you know, and there's always more to learn.

[00:12:07] Lori: It sounds like there's a healthy amount of feeling the symptoms of Imposter Syndrome without it impacting your work. It's when it impacts your life that it becomes a problem. Is that correct? Or is that not a good way to think of.

[00:12:24] Michele: I love that way of looking at it. You're absolutely right, because we all have Imposter Syndrome. It's when it becomes chronic and it's constant thing that then it starts to impact your productivity, your relationships. That's when it falls into official Imposter Syndrome land, shall we say? And when someone should stop and go, Hmm, maybe I need to get some help with this so I can let it go and move beyond it.

[00:12:54] Lori: Do men and women experience Imposter Syndrome the same or differently?

[00:13:00] Michele: I would say differently. Because of society and all of the pre-programming that's already out there. Women get paid less than men, women of color get paid even less. All of those societal factors have a much greater impact on women and our collective psyche. Men, it still happens for them, but it's at a different kind of level because of societal influences. They're expected to be strong and to power through and to not let things bother them and don't cry. And all of those non-emotional ways of being that men get stuffed into. And that doesn't work for a lot of men. And so it still shows up as Imposter Syndrome for them. And I think it's actually a little harder for them to raise their hand to go, yeah, this is something I'm dealing with too.

[00:13:53] Lori: You specifically have a special program to address not only Imposter Syndrome, but other self-doubt behaviors and thinking patterns that get in the way. And you've kind of labeled that as having five self-doubt archetypes. Could you talk about that? Tell us what those are and give us some information about it?

[00:14:11] Michele: Over my 20 years of research and self-study and working with clients from all around the world, recognizing Imposter Syndrome and trying to pull it apart, like what makes one person confident and the other person not? Through all of that, I've identified five self-doubt archetypes. And these self-doubt archetypes, there are different faces, different facets of how self-doubt can impact us. And we might have different facets of them within us at different points. But I found that there's typically one that is our predominant. self-doubt, archetype. Just like with the five love languages, there's typically one love language that is the most predominant one for someone. So the five self-doubt archetypes that I've identified are the Procrastinating Perfectionist, the Shapeshifter, the Reluctant Resistor, the Anxious Avoider, and the Fearful Follower. And each one have their own set of characteristics that are at the root cause for them. And it's only when they become debilitating that they're impacting our lives and our careers and our relationships.

[00:15:22] Lori: You've got a free assessment and so Nola and I both did the free assessment. Mine was Anxious Avoider, and I read it but I just didn't want to admit that fit me.

[00:15:34] Nola: Even before I saw the definitions, I saw the title and I saw, oh yeah, I'm a Procrastinating Perfectionist. And so, I took the test and sure enough that's me.

[00:15:48] Michele: Well, they all have their own funny little characteristics. So the Procrastinating Perfectionist, they tend to have to have everything just so. Everything has to be perfect before they can hand it off to anybody else. So, when it comes to working in a team, that can be a little challenging.

[00:16:08] Lori: I'm going to say, Nola, does this sound familiar?

[00:16:11] Nola: More than I care to admit.

[00:16:15] Michele: Yes. Now the Anxious Avoiders, well, this is my predominant one. We're scared of being rejected for not knowing enough or not having all the answers or asking for help, because if we ask for help, then someone might figure out that we don't have all the answers.
[00:16:30] The Shapeshifter, those are the folks who will over-give and over-give just to keep the peace instead of believing in themselves or trusting their own instincts. They are masterful at juggling multiple plates just to try and keep it all together.

[00:16:46] Our Reluctant Resistor friends, well, they are constantly working really hard just to prove themselves. Prove themselves to themselves or to others because they don't feel like they've reached their full potential yet, even though they might have umpteen years of experience.
[00:17:03] And then the Fearful Follower is, you will follow other people's advice till the cows come home, before you trust your own instincts, or believe in your own expertise, because there's that ever popular, "I'm not enough yet" dialogue kind of going on inside your mind.

[00:17:20] Lori: I just wonder how many of us have not gone forward in doing the thing that we secretly feel called to do, whether that's passion or purpose, because of these syndromes.

[00:17:36] Michele: Yes. Well, one of the things that I have learned along my path is that your greatest source of pain is your greatest source of passion and purpose. For me, taking my experience with Imposter Syndrome, which was probably one of the most painful things I've ever gone through, when I got let go of my corporate career, and taking that and turning it around and giving it to others as a gift now. I have a dear friend of mine, Shariann Tom, who is a five-time cancer survivor. Five times. Like, no joke. She's got that down pat. And she has created the Cancer Journey Institute. And so she now trains people worldwide to be cancer coaches. She helps people going through their cancer journey by having a coach next to them who understands and can help them through that to the other side, in whatever shape or form that looks like. So, it's that powerful shifts that you can take from those painful experiences and then give them back to the world. That's where true purpose comes and your whole body lights up. And it doesn't feel like work.

[00:18:43] Nola: You have developed, what's called Rapid Rewiring. Can you explain what that is and how it works?

[00:18:52] Michele: As a coach, we're always helping people identify where they are and where they want to go. What are the blocks and how do we move past the blocks? Well, that's great, except it's all working at a conscious level. So five plus years ago, I discovered a powerful tool called Rapid Transformational Therapy or RTT. And doing the work for myself, it moved some deep blocks out of my way that I literally had been trying to get at for years, in a matter of weeks. I was like, whoa. Okay. Let me figure that out. So I went on to get trained and certified, and incorporated that into my work. And what I found very quickly was when I combined hypnotherapy and coaching together inside of a 30-to-90-day period, they supercharge each other because coaching allows us to look at, okay, what's the surface level blocks that are getting in my way, and my ways of being that aren't working? And the hypnotherapy allows me to get at the subconscious level and allows me to talk to your subconscious, which is 90% of your brain power. And everything that's ever happened to you is neatly stored there. So in this alpha brainwave state, this half-awake, half-asleep place that I would take you to inside of a session, that allows me to just talk to your subconscious. And your mind will bubble up to the surface, all the right information we need to know to get at the originating event that created the belief to begin with. The belief of "I'm not enough," whatever that was, not to relive it, but to notice it through adult eyes, right? Because oftentimes those events, those decision points along your path, not always but happen at a young age. So from this now moment, you can look back and go, wow. I was a helpless little child. And my mom, my dad, my sister, my neighbor, somebody said something or did something to me that then made me believe and digest into my subconscious mind, I'm not enough, in some way, shape or form. And then that belief just was sitting there in your subconscious programming, reminding you what to do and what not to do to stay safe. Right. There's this part of your brain called the amygdala, your fight, flight or freeze portion of your brain. So that's, what's at the root causes that creates Imposter Syndrome, right? It's these old beliefs that get triggered and bubble back up to the surface. So Rapid Rewiring is a way that I get to work with clients over 30 to 90 days in a very intentional way. Over that period, we'll have weekly coaching calls and or hypnotherapy sessions. Those beliefs of I'm not enough, we just neutralize it. So the story that you created about yourself simply becomes your history. It's just a thing of the past and it no longer triggers you or bothers you. So now without these blinders on, you can see more of what's possible. You can step more fully into who you are authentically, more courageously, more confidently.

[00:21:52] Lori: You developed a new program to really target and address Imposter Syndrome. Can you talk about that and is Rapid Rewiring a part of that or is that separate?

[00:22:03] Michele: Yes, and. It's called How to Become Unshakable. So, we're helping people identify what is their self-doubt archetype so they can become unshakably confident. So over seven weeks, they're getting new lessons each and every week to help them unpack things that are in their subconscious mind. And as part of that, yes, we're doing a full hypnotherapy session and they're also receiving, not one, but multiple transformation recordings. So, the transformation recording is something that I give to each of my clients. It's customized to them when I do one-on-one work with someone. And it's essentially me speaking in a particular tone and cadence, mixed in with binaural beat music that they listen to every night as they drift off to sleep. And that repetition of listening to it every night for 30 days is allowing those words, those phrases to drop down into your subconscious mind into your long-term memory. So you are paving over that old bumpy road filled with potholes that said, oh, I'm not enough. I'm not good enough. I can't do this, with. I am enough. So that repetition is helping someone be more authentically themselves.

[00:23:22] Lori: So you can do all of this via Zoom?

[00:23:25] Michele: Correct. I do all my work over Zoom. So the course, it starts on March 7th.

[00:23:29] Lori: You are so passionate about it.

[00:23:31] Nola: So your upcoming masterclass is called Taming Your Self-Doubt.

[00:23:37] Michele: There's a free masterclass.

[00:23:40] Nola: Oh, yay!

[00:23:41] Michele: There's a free master class called Taming Your Self-Doubts.

[00:23:45] Nola: Okay.

[00:23:46] Michele: Which I am teaching live on multiple dates. And there is my new seven-week course.

[00:23:54] Lori: Okay.

[00:23:55] Michele: How to Become Unshakeable, which is not free, but it's very powerful. That's the deeper dive work that you're doing on a weekly basis over seven weeks.

[00:24:04] Nola: That's awesome. So in the meantime, just kind of like a little sneak peek, what three or four tips can you give to someone who's experiencing imposter syndrome as a way to move through that?

[00:24:17] Michele: First and foremost, the most important thing is to just to notice. What's the internal dialogue that you're having with yourself? When you're all excited and ready to go and do that thing and then you go, and you get stuck and you find yourself spinning or procrastinating, just stop and ask yourself, what am I telling myself? What has me fearful? So noticing is the very first step. Another great step is accountability. Simply doing that, sharing with a friend. Hey Nola. Guess what I'm going to create? And I announce it to the world, whether it's one person or my social media channel. Now you've got all these people looking at you go, oh wow, that's great. Of course you can do it. We know you can do it. You're totally capable of doing that.

[00:25:05] Nola: Oh, that's so scary.

[00:25:07] Michele: I know.

[00:25:09] Nola: That is so scary.

[00:25:11] Michele: So you're meant to notice that and like, okay, but I'm safe. Like again, bringing yourself back to present moment. In this moment, I'm safe. All is well. Nothing bad is going to happen. It's just myself trying to convince me otherwise because of past issues in my life that are ingrained in my neural pathways that says, oh, this is scary and something bad might happen, so don't do it. So you just get to notice and that accountability then provides you someone else outside of you to cheer you on.

[00:25:46] This is a true story. One day I was working on something big thing and I was nervous and I was sitting at my desk and the top of my head starts to tingle. I'm squirming in my seat. I'm like having a giant urge to get up and go have a snack. And I caught myself. I was like, oh, oh, that's the edge of my comfort zone. That's what that feels like. Oh, okay. Uncomfortable happens. Keep going. Don't get up and have a snack. Sit there and finish what you're doing and then be done with it. And be like, oh, and then celebrate. Celebrate when you've done the thing that you thought you couldn't do. Because when you do that, your brain goes, oh, we're celebrating. Ping! And it gives you a burst of happy chemicals. Dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins, and your body goes, oh, that feels good. Let's do more of that. So you start retraining yourself to push past the edges of your comfort zone and to do more of what you're here to do. More of what you're passionate about. And what's on purpose for you. And, and you get to notice when the top of your head starts to tingle and you sit still.

[00:26:48] Lori: Those are great tips. Those are very helpful tips. This has been so fascinating and so helpful. Michele, thank you so much for joining us and we hope that you will come back because there's so much more information. We could take a deeper dive into each one of these, as well as some of your techniques and tips for overcoming the obstacles that get in our way. So we do hope that you'll come back. But in the meantime,

[00:27:17] Michele: Oh, of course. Y'all are a ball.

[00:27:18] Lori: In the meantime, if somebody listening wants to get in touch with you or learn more about your work, your services, your groups, your Facebook groups, where and how can they connect with you?

[00:27:29] Michele: Sure. So you can always find more about me at MicheleMolitor.com, M I C H E L E M O L I T O R dotcom. And you can read more about my Rapid Rewiring programs and take the quiz and all those good things. You can also find me on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Instagram and come on over to my Rewire for Success group in Facebook. I have a beautiful community there of folks, and I'm always sharing tips and tricks and inspirations, you'll know when the next course is going to be dropping live. So all sorts of good things there for you.

[00:28:07] Lori: We'll be sure to put all the links in our show notes, and you can find those, listeners, wherever you listen to podcasts or on our website. And we'd like to thank you for listening to this episode. We hope it makes all the difference in you getting started on your business so you can create your best and most exciting life. If you found the information here today helpful, please let us know by posting where you're listening or go over to our Facebook page.

[00:28:35] Nola: Not sure how to turn your idea into a profitable side business? Contact us at stickybrandlab.com/contact. We'd be happy to help you.

[00:28:44] Lori: Be sure to come back next Tuesday and every Tuesday for another informative, inspiring and motivating episode. And remember actions create results. So tap into your desire to create a business and brand you love by taking 1% action every day. Small steps, big effects.

[OUT-TAKE]
[00:29:02] Nola: Why you're so passionate about the topic and how it hits
[00:29:16] Michele: Hairball.
[00:29:17] Lori: Did you say hairball?
[00:29:17] Nola: I tell you,
[00:29:19] Lori: She has a cat.
[00:29:20] Nola: I do.
[00:29:20] Michele: I have four cats.
[00:29:21] Nola: Oh, you do. Okay.
[00:29:23] I know all about hairballs.