#63-NFT Project Fatigue: The Signs & Symptoms Of NFT Burnout With Artist & Mini Monkey Mafia Co-Founder Christine Gu

Show Notes

In this episode Lori Vajda and Nola Boea sat down with digital artist and Mini Monkey Mafia co-founder Christine Gu for an open and honest discussion about NFT project fatigue. If you’ve ever been so motivated and excited to work on an NFT art project or chat nonstop with Discord members, only to realize you don’t have the same enthusiasm as you once did; you may be experiencing burnout. 

Come take a listen and find out how to navigate the NFT space while taking great care of your mental health.

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In This Episode You’ll Learn 

• What is creative burnout and how does it impact NFT projects?
• Learn why project burnout can be dangerous to your well-being. 
• What causes burnout and how to prevent it from happening to you.
• The 5 signs you may have or are experiencing NFT project burnout.
  

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Key points Nola and Lori are sharing in this episode:

(3:13:37) The two big differences between a traditional online business and an NFT business launch are what contributes to NFT fatigue.  
(6:35:56) The unanticipated stressors within the NFT space are leading to an increased number of artists and team members experiencing exhaustion post launch.
(10:35.53) How transparency and the increasing demands from Discord project members is leading individuals to experience these 7 signs and symptoms of burnout. 
(17:35.30) Recommendations, tips or tools for anyone wanting to mitigate the pressure that comes inherently with starting an NFT art project.

Resources 

You can subscribe to Lori and Nola's show, (we love you and want to make it easy) on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audible, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Connect with Christine Gu: 
Christine's personal portfolio: https://christinegu.com/ 
Christine's Twitter: https://twitter.com/chr15tine_gu 
Mini Monkey Mafia OpenSea link: https://opensea.io/collection/minimonkeymafia 
Mini Monkey Mafia website: https://monkeymafia.co/ 
This episode was supported by: Be-YOU-nique
ConvertKit: Our #1 Favorite Email Marketing Platform 
(This is an affiliate link)

Transcript

​[00:00:00] Christine: I would be at my friend's apartment just for a quick dinner. And they'd be like, you look so stressed. And it was just because I didn't know how to deal with that guilt of, well, I'm not working 24 7. I'm taking time off. And yet I feel like I still owe people something even though I gave them 110% of what I already have.

[00:00:17] Lori: NFT art may look like an exciting financial opportunity to collectors, investors and buyers, but for creatives, developers and project team members, it requires intense focus, grueling hours and flawless launch execution. It's an industry that combines artistic talent, technology, and business. Stick around listeners because this episode is for anyone who wants to know what it takes to thrive in the intense, competitive, and fast-paced environment of the NFT art space.

[00:00:50] Announcer: You're listening to the Sticky Brand Lab podcast, where time strapped professionals, like you learn how to create a business you love in as little as three hours a week.

[00:01:03] Nola: Selling out your first NFT launch in just hours may sound like a dream come true for a first-time bootstrapped project. And to many NFT entrepreneurs and buyers, it is. But behind the scenes, there's another story happening. And as more people launch their own NFT art projects, we wanted to explore the demands and stress many project teams and individuals are experiencing. But before we do, welcome to Sticky Brand Lab, the podcast where we share essential business tools, shortcuts, and advice from leading entrepreneurs, industry experts and our own real-world experience. So you can launch your business quickly and without breaking the bank or feeling overwhelmed, because the only thing more empowering than knowledge is being able to take confident, decisive action.

[00:01:48] Lori: We're here today with our returning guest, Christine Gu. Christine is an NFT entrepreneur, artist and co-founder of Mini Monkey Mafia, which sold out its first project launch of 5,000 pieces in just three hours.

But success can come at a price. There's a downside to launching a project, especially when you're a two- to three-person bootstrapped team. Drawing upon her own experience, Christine is here to share how the fast pace, grueling hours and demanding NFT art space impacted her physically, mentally, and emotionally, and what lessons she learned along the way.
Her story is a personal, how to guide for entrepreneurial NFT artists, creators, developers, and anyone wanting to stay healthy, happy, and sane in a high-pressure environment. Welcome back, Christine.

[00:02:40] Christine: Thank you. Thank you.

[00:02:42] Nola: We're so glad to have you back. And one of the reasons we wanted to have you back is because we've gotten a lot of positive responses from people who've listened to both of your previous episodes with us. We thought it would be helpful if you could share your experience as a first-time NFT entrepreneur and the insights and lessons learned you've gained since your first launch. So for anyone who's thinking about getting into the NFT space and launching their first project, can you tell us how is the NFT business and especially the NFT art business, how is it different from an analog business?

[00:03:13] Christine: The biggest difference is the timeline in which the businesses are created. And I think the best way that I would be able to describe the NFT business is it flips the traditional business model on its head, puts it on crack, and then expects everyone else to follow the same timeline.

So with a traditional business, what essentially happens is you have an idea, you start to ideate it, you test that with a couple of users, you see if they like it, and then based off of that response, you make a better product. And it gets to the point where you'll get a lot more of a user base based off of multiple ideations.

That's not necessarily the case of the NFT business. What I like to say is that on top of the analogy, is two separate businesses. I think that could be best divided by pre-launch and post-launch. So pre-launch, you come out with your NFTs, a lot of the times it's an art piece, but the industry is moving towards more things such as subscriptions, music and so forth. I'm not too familiar with that space so I'm not going to go into it. But essentially with the JPEG or the more artistic NFTs, it's more like you come out with this announcement. We have 5,000 NFTs, we have 10,000 NFTs, we have XYZ many NFTs that are dropping on this date. And the whole goal during the time of that announcement, or even before, when you start to like, make all the art, up until launch is selling out.

But selling out doesn't necessarily mean that you have a product with a strong utility. And that's part two of the NFT business. All of a sudden you have this entire community, but it's very loosely tied together. They might like the arts, they might like certain pieces of your roadmap, which is kind of just like the business part of your NFT, and they might like a couple of connections that they make within your discord, Twitter, or any other social media platforms that you have made. But there isn't necessarily a product that really brings them together. And I think the problem with that is we have such a wide-cast net of an audience, but it's not necessarily an audience that has grown with you and grown by your side as you were ideating your product. It's mainly people from all different walks of life all trying to come together and see what product can we make for this community now. So I think the biggest thing that differentiates the NFT business from a traditional business model is the fact that it really warps the entire timeline of what it means to build a business on its head.

[00:05:30] Nola: Wow.

[00:05:31] Lori: You know, there's a lot of information, especially recently in the news, about the other side, the buyer, the investor, the collector, and how people are making money. And they look at the teams or the projects, and they're talking about it from that standpoint. And this, we thought, was a very important topic because it goes behind the scenes. So what were the challenges you and your co-founder expected might happen when you launched your first art project, and what actually were the unanticipated challenges that showed up?

[00:06:05] Christine: So, post-launch, I think my co-founder and I came in with a good number of expectations. And while I won't give the name of this person, it is someone that I do look for both as a friend and as a mentor, because they did launch their own NFC collection. That being said, they gave us a lot of really great pointers about what to look forward to. So in terms of post-launch, my co-founder and I were pretty much expecting a lot of negative backlash if we weren't going to come out with products right away. We were expecting a lot more pressure. And we were expecting that this trajectory was going to change a lot. Because back then we united the community for launch in order to sell out. But now we got to find a way to unite the community based off of how do we create something for them.
So I think those are things that we definitely expected, but the unanticipated things ended up being what actually caused a lot of my own burnout. So as an artist, I was ready to get down and pretty much just create another whole collection, whether it be for babies, Maca Monkeys and so forth, what we didn't expect was its slow trajectory of how many hats we had to wear. And where that ended up taking me. So a little backstory. Because we are a team of two, and because my co-founder and I both have a ton of projects outside Mini Monkey Mafia, and a ton of other responsibilities, we can't be on the Discord focusing on everything 24/7, like it's just not possible. And so we would switch off here and there, where in the beginning it was more, he was on the Discord, and as we got more to the end, I was in the Discord more. So I was taking on a larger role in community. And at first I was okay, but I think the expectations started to get more and more. It got to a point where I was expected to be the one to give quote unquote hot takes on social media. And I was expected to be the one that went out and did all these talks and press and whatnot.
And for me as someone that prefers to keep my life private, as someone that is a bit more introverted, it caused me a lot of stress just to get up on stage pretty much every other day, and talk about my experiences, which I want to keep private within my own circles. And then on top of that, it was this constant pressure of, you need to be more transparent. You guys need to come out all the time and be talking to the community. Which, to a point, I think the community should know what we're working on because they didn't invest in us. But to the point of getting into my personal life and asking me to go beyond my bandwidth and still saying that I wasn't doing enough, it was a lot of stress on me because if you tell me to work 10 hours just doing art, completely fine with that. I'll go to sleep happy, I can sleep at night. But telling me to go out and expecting me to be pretty much the face of Mini Monkey Mafia and having that type of responsibility. I never wanted to be the face or like the poster child of this NFT. And so that caused me an immense amount of stress. And it even got to a point where, it's despite the fact that so many people are telling me, we love the way that you explained this project, we love your voice. I started to hate my voice more than anything. And I got to a point where I was like, I need to take a step back. Because if I can't sustain myself, there's no way I could sustain this project.

[00:09:04] Nola: That sounds actually quite plausible. When you describe your daily routine and having to show up when that's not in your nature, whereas opposed to designing something that's inherent and you're in the flow and you can spend a lot of time with,

[00:09:16] Lori: In listening to you, it reminded me of when you think of actors and musicians and fans, now not just loving the music, but wanting to know more about what's happening. And then you have paparazzi that follow them. And then you have critics that make personal attacks on them. It moves from professional to personal. And while your project, Mini Monkey Mafia, was the success, I would think that the same thing happens for projects in which it wasn't as successful.

[00:09:48] Christine: Yes, absolutely. I think the thing about Web 3.0 is, you do get a closer relationship with the founders.

And I want to clarify before I go any further, this wasn't all negative. My co-founder and I made the decision for me to come out in the beginning as someone that could be the face of the project. We just didn't expect it to get to the point that it did. And so I think in the beginning, like establishing that culture within the Discord, making those connections, even having people say, like, I have kids, they really look up to you as an artist and as a businesswoman, is something that I'm super, super grateful for. And that wasn't the cause of my burnout. It was mainly just when, I did my best at the end of the day, and I'm still getting messages like, you need to do more hot takes. You need to come out more. You need to share more about your personal life. People deserve to know what's going on behind the scenes. And I'm like, I'm studying for a final. You guys don't need to know that. Because I'm still in college student. And it got to the point where like, I felt like I couldn't have any leisure time, I'm not a college student that goes out and parties, like, it's just not my thing. But I would feel guilty just going out for a coffee because I wasn't sharing that with the community or I wasn't giving that to the community. But certain people were expecting me to come out like that. To a point where, I would be at my friend's apartment just for a quick dinner. And they'd be like, you look so stressed. And it was just because , I didn't know how to deal with that guilt of, well, I'm not working 24 7. I'm taking time off. And yet I feel like I still owe people something even though I gave them 110% of what I already have.
Before I go any further, I do want to clarify none of this was caused by my co-founder. I think we have a very, very open communication style. I'm very grateful. And I think I wouldn't have been able to get to the point that I am now in terms of getting a lot better without his support. I want to make that super clear.

[00:11:42] Nola: So how else did that pressure and stress take its toll on you?

[00:11:47] Christine: Physically, it caused a ton of anxiety. Like I said before, I never wanted to be the public face to the point that it did. I think I was fine being the person that people can rely on in the community, the person that people can DM every once in a while and talk about ideas or like, you know, what they wanted out of the project, but I wasn't ready to be the person that was always going on.

By the way, before I say this, I love this podcast, this is why back. But I wasn't ready to be the person that was going to go on like every single podcast and write every single article and do every single interview. That was never my intention with Mini Monkey Mafia. At first, when it came to those press releases, I feel like, yeah. Okay, I'll do it. But I would stay up all night. I couldn't get any sleep because of how stressed I was. And then that would go into my performance the next day. And then on top of that, that took a toll, like all my grades, my relationships, and so forth. And then it got to a point where when I get stressed, I don't eat. And my appetite just shuts down.

So even when I was looking at the scale, I'd realized I'd lost like 15 pounds just within a month because of how stressed I was. It got to a point where I literally, just texted my co-founder. I was like, Hey, I cannot keep doing this. We need to talk. Right now. Because it had gotten to that point where I was not getting more than like four hours of sleep a night. And I also wasn't eating and I was still trying to run this thing full time. I have an internship on the side and I'm a full-time student. and I'm also the board for a bunch of clubs. And I was like, this is not sustainable at all.

[00:13:13] Lori: It sounds a lot like you went from stress to Like over the top kind of

[00:13:21] Nola: Uber stressed.
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[00:13:22] Lori: Yeah. Yeah. Not only does it take its toll on you physically and mentally because you're not sleeping, you're not eating, concentration is challenging. . So from that perspective, how do you handle or deal with stress, not only as it was increasing, but also on launch day and afterwards?

[00:13:46] Christine: I end up numbing myself out when I get stressed. And it's not like I'm taking any substances or anything. I just get to a point where I can't feel anything, period. And so it got to a point where like, even if I was sad or I was supposed to be happy, I couldn't feel any of that. And I think that's when I started to get really, really anxious about myself because when you can't feel, you don't know who you're impacting. Even if I was negatively impacting someone, I personally knew I wouldn't be able to feel that. Because I was so numb. And so I think when that started happening, I was like, oh shoot, this is going to start impacting all my other relationships, and there's no way I can put that on the line, whether it be my co-founder or my friendships outside of this project or anyone in between. And so I think it was a mixture of that, not sleeping, and then also having a hard time eating where I was just, I have to tell someone something.

I think what slowly helped get it better was, one, I was pretty aware of the situation because there's been a couple of times in my life in the past where I've gotten to this extent, but I don't think I've reached out for help. And I think I've gotten to a point now where I know that if I'm going through something it's best to reach out for help, especially if someone else is in a better situation.

And so for me, I think what helped a lot is because I have, I'm very grateful to have so many friends at my college campus. And I also have my roommates, which I get along really well. It would literally just be me, instead of studying in my room per se, it would be me studying with one of them. And I literally tell them Hey, I'm going through something really stressful. Can you just stay with me for now? And then if I start acting up, call me out right away. Like I will do something about this. And so it was kind of just making sure that I was in an environment where I was constantly held accountable. So even if I couldn't feel anything at that moment, someone else could. They could give me those data points.

[00:15:38] Nola: With wisdom, that you've gone through this to gain this wisdom, I would think that you probably have some hindsight. And with that hindsight, what would you do differently?

[00:15:49] Christine: Right away, I would be setting a lot more strict boundaries and expectations. I think as much as what happened within the past few months did frustrate me quite a bit and burnt me out to a very great sense, I think I could have set a lot more clear boundaries expectations and said something like, Hey, I'm able to do this within my bandwidth, within this amount of time, but I cannot go above and beyond and fulfill all these expectations that you think I should be doing just because I show up with a happy face to these interviews, or I'm more than happy to sound happy when it comes to replying to press releases and whatnot. For me, it was just understanding myself more. But you can only learn that in hindsight. Like, I don't think I would've known what my limits were if I wasn't pushed to them. So I guess that's the silver lining in it. But looking back, I think if I knew myself a lot better, it would be mainly just, I can do this, I'm able to do this within this type of timeline, and these are the boundaries and expectations that I'm setting for both everyone that I'm working with and myself.

[00:16:53] Lori: What makes this interview so important and your message and experience and your willingness to share it, which by the way, thank you so much for doing, because what is happening in the news is people are talking about all of the positive that happens for collectors and buyers and sellers and projects and the notoriety. But not a lot, if any, that I've seen so far has talked about the toll it takes on those project teams. And having some insight, even the expectations for anybody who's listening, who wants to start their own NFT project, this can be really helpful. So based on your experience, what recommendations, tips or tools would you suggest for anyone wanting to mitigate the pressure that comes inherently with starting an NFT art project?

[00:17:46] Christine: Absolutely. I think one thing is establishing very clear boundaries and expectations, and that comes with knowing what you want. Because before I came to my co-founder, I literally wrote out, where do I see myself as a person in the next couple of years? And I personally didn't see myself as someone that was a public figure. I just want to be a designer. And so I think my expectations from that going forward was, I can still talk to the community if they want to connect with me via Twitter. Sometimes on the Discord I'll still pop in every now and then. And if they want to connect with me on all my other social media, more than happy to do so. But my main goal is a designer. So how do we make a environment for me to hone down and double down on those skills that I like a lot.

I think another aspect is just getting a second opinion. I think one of the biggest issues that I run into, especially in as Web 3.0 space is, it is kind of like an echo chamber. So, you talk to people at Web 3.0 and they're basically just like, we love working 24/7. It's always so fast paced that I was like, this is BS. So I think having good people around you in the Web 3.0 space is important because then you get a lot of more insightful takes. But at the same time, I would also suggest reaching out to friends, family, or even like a therapist, if you have one, to get that third-party opinion on what you should be doing. For me, it was mainly just reaching out to friends, and most of my friends aren't in tech. So getting that completely, not-in-the-space opinion was really, really valuable because then they were like, yo, you're crazy for working this amount, sleeping like three hours, hardly even eating. And yet you're giving up so much of yourself and what are you getting for yourself? Having that type of supports and having that type of honesty between people is really, really important going forward.

[00:19:43] Lori: Did you do meditation? Nature walks? Did you do anything that kind of brings some health, relaxes your mind, your body, anything like that?

[00:19:53] Christine: So I've been trying meditation. I'm think I'm still pretty fidgety. And I think meditation has helped a lot just because it does force you to sit with your thoughts. And on most days I still have a pretty difficult time to be honest but on some days you get into this flow of, your thoughts are just there to pass. And I think those are the best days. Other than that, I do try to take walks pretty much every day in the morning, I'll wake up early. And originally I started because I couldn't sleep. But at this point, I think doing a lot better health wise, but I do try to wake up early just so I can go on a walk and it's very peaceful. It's quiet. I'll play some music in the background just to get everything flowing.

[00:20:28] Nola: Out of those, or maybe there's something else, what is your favorite way to decompress after a grueling day?

[00:20:36] Christine: Being able to talk everything out with friends. I'm very grateful that the roommates and I all pretty much share the same lifestyle, so at the end of the day, we'll basically just catch up with each other. And I think that's something that's helped me a lot. Because then you get to hear there's so many things going on outside of your life. You get to hear whatever other people are doing, and you'll also get to hear like their perspective of what's going on in your life.

[00:20:59] Lori: I think that's really important. If a person doesn't have a natural connection, a partner, friends that they're with, then getting on the phone or probably is much more natural than texting. Although texting is really important. When you have the ability to articulate your voice, you hear things that are coming out of your mouth that give you insight. So I think the message of, I talk to people, and not using text messaging or other social platforms, really is a significant recommendation. So thanks for that. And thank you, Christine.

[00:21:35] Christine: Oh, absolutely. Thank you.

[00:21:37] Lori: Thank you for being a guest here today. If someone wants to learn more about you or learn more about your experience, as well as your artwork or Mini Monkey Mafia, where should listeners go and how can they connect with you?

[00:21:51] Christine: Yes. The Mini Monkeys are linked to my portfolio, which you can see at christinegu.com, C H R I S T I N E G U.com. In terms of social media, I connect with a lot of people on Twitter, so you can follow me at C H R 1 5 T I N E underscore G U. I replaced the I S in my name with a 15. So that's CHR one five T I N E underscore G U, and that's the main place where I can connect with people. Other than that, everything else and all my past work is on my portfolio. so you want to check out my previous work as a product designer or as a NFT artist, it's all there as well.

[00:22:31] Lori: That's great. And thank you so much listeners for listening to this episode. We hope it makes all the difference in you getting started on your side business so you can create your best and most exciting life. Not sure how to turn your idea into a profitable side business? Contact us at stickybrandlab.com/contact. We'd be happy to help you. If you found the information shared here today, helpful, let us know by posting here where you're listening or on our Facebook page. This way we can learn more about your business goals and ideas, as well as send you love, encouragement, and congratulate you on the amazing and courageous decision you've made.

[00:23:11] Nola: Be sure to come back next Tuesday and every Tuesday for another informative, inspiring and motivating episode. And remember action creates results. So tap into your desire to create a business and brand you love by taking 1% action every day. Small steps, big effects.

[00:23:29] Lori: Do you have questions about creating a personal brand, side hustle or small business? Sign up for one of our clarity sessions. For more information, contact us at stickybrandlab.com/contact.

[OUT-TAKE]

[00:23:40] Nola: This usually happens before I start recording.
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[00:23:52] Lori: Yes, but we didn't have that going on. So it feels natural that you would get tongue tied right here.