#113: The Future Of Work and Entrepreneurship With Futurist Joe Tankersley

Show Notes

Between 2020 and today, we’ve seen seismic shifts, from where we work to how we work. As the year comes to a close and the New Year is just weeks away, we wonder what the future of work and entrepreneurship will look like. 
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To get some insight, co-hosts Nola Boea and Lori Vajda sat down with professional futurist Joe Tankersley to take a deeper look at the opportunities, challenges, and realities for aspiring entrepreneurs.

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In This Episode You’ll Learn 

• What can we expect the future of work and entrepreneurship to look like?
• Over the next few years, how will the way we evaluate our quality of life and work change? 
• Why some of the most impactful shifts will come from small and medium businesses.
• What’s next for local and global entrepreneurship?

Key points Lori and Nola are sharing in this episode:

• (02:50:75) What exactly is a futurist, and how do they help you outsmart your competition?
• (06:27:47) Who is more likely to embrace change and adapt quickly, and who is more likely to feel threatened by change and resist it, older or younger people? The answer may surprise you.
• (09:04:41) The very concept of a “job'' will likely change drastically in the not-too-distant future and could become almost as antiquated as owning a horse and buggy.
• (12:10:85) As an entrepreneur, you're looking for the next opportunity. Here’s an example of what might be the next idea or innovation that's out there.
• (22:45:57) These are the action steps an aspiring entrepreneur can take to “imagineer” their own future.

Resources 

​Our guest’s website: JoeTankersley.com

You can subscribe to Lori and Nola's show, (we love you and want to make it easy) on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audible, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
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Transcript

[00:00:00] Lori: Is your head spinning from the volley of employment reports? Wasn't it just this summer that we read headlines talking about the great resignation? Now news reports talk about more layoffs on the horizon. Should you be worried? Could the unthinkable happen to you? Clearly, the world is different now, but what does that mean for your future? What do you need to know now that can help insulate you during economic turns? Should you stay at your current career track? Or is now the right time to start a business? Stay tuned friend, because in this episode we are talking to professional futurists, Joe Tankersley, to see what type of future we can expect, and more importantly, what we can imagineer for ourselves.

[00:00:49] Announcer: You're listening to the Sticky Brand Lab podcast where time strapped professionals like you learn how to create a business you love in as little as three hours a week.

[00:01:00] Nola: We recently heard a statistic that said, since the start of 2020, there have been more than 2.5 million English language headlines containing the word unimaginable, and more than 3 million with the word unthinkable. Clearly, we are living in unprecedented times. A bright career future might be unimaginable for any one condition to think in the old ways, but thinking in a different way makes it possible, and that's what this episode is all about.

Meet Joe Tankersley. Before becoming an author and professional futurist. Joe had a 20-year career with Walt Disney Imagineering. As a show writer with Disney and later as a show producer, he combined his storytelling talent with the park's innovative technology to educate, empower, and inspire visitors to Walt Disney World and Disney Land Resort in California. It was through his work on Epcot, that he glimpsed the power of stories to help create the future. In 2015, Joe left Disney to form his company Unique Visions where he helps others Imagineer their best tomorrows. And in 2018 he authored the book, Reimagining Our Tomorrows, Making Sure Your Future Doesn't Suck. Welcome, Joe.

[00:02:19] Joe: Well, it's great to be here.

[00:02:20] Lori: We're so glad that you are here. Yeah.

[00:02:23] Nola: It's great to see you again, and our listeners wouldn't know unless we told them that it's because of you organizing a lunch for a community organization that made Lori and I, made our meeting possible, so we owe our, uh, debt of gratitude to you.

[00:02:42] Joe: Oh, wow. That's always great to hear that you've been involved in creating somebody's future, even if it was over lunch.

[00:02:49] Nola: Exactly.

[00:02:50] Lori: Well, Joe, before we get into the details of what the future might look like for professionals and entrepreneurs, can you explain what a futurist is and what they do?

[00:03:01] Joe: The answer starts with what we don't do. We don't really predict the future because nobody can do that. You can write books and be speakers and come up with great predictions, but if you really want to help people, it's helping people see beyond the limits of their imagination. Seeing beyond the horizon. one famous futurist used to say that the goal of a futurist is to help you get to tomorrow before your competition. So what we really want you to do, is see what is possible, make sense of all of these headlines that you're seeing, particularly in the world we live in today. So, it's really more about helping you think differently than it is telling you which lottery ticket to buy. We can't predict that. Wish we could.

[00:03:43] Nola: Oh, darn. Well. Show's over.

[00:03:45] Lori: Yeah. Yeah, that there you go.

[00:03:47] Joe: Sorry about that.

[00:03:49] Nola: I'm just kidding.

[00:03:50] Lori: So can you give us a framework as well about what you and your company do when you're working with clients?

[00:03:57] Joe: It comes in different flavors. Because I started in Disney, a lot of my early work was about purely educating people to think as futurist, going with a to a, say, a small or midsize business, and to help them set up their own foresight practice by training the people there. What is future? How do you think about it? How do you scan for trends? So that's one avenue.

The other piece is if someone has a particular topic area they're interested in. For example, one of my frequent clients was a large consumer products company, and they were interested in the future of shopping. For instance, what would digital technology do? Where would people be buying their products in the future? And so for a project like that, we do a deep dive. We do a lot of research. We create a lot of what we call scenarios, possibilities, and then tend to work with the client to let them decide what strategies those scenarios would suggest. So that's a generally the kind of work I did.

[00:04:57] Nola: Well, there obviously has been drastic change going on. I mean, from a global pandemic to climate change and from headlines about the economy to the state of education, it seems like we're all living in, like we just said, unprecedented, unthinkable, and unimaginable times. But is that really happening? And how would you describe the overall changes we're actually experiencing?

[00:05:24] Joe: So I'll go back in time. the Futurist profession started after World War II basically. And one of the first practitioners, uh, was actually a couple. Heidi and Alvin Toffler, they wrote Future Shock. They're the people who came up with the original idea that said things were changing so fast that people were actually suffering what they considered to be essentially an illness, a psychological state called Future Shock. And so that was in 1970. Imagine what they would think if they were around today. That would be future shock to the factor of 10 or something like that.

We've been on a course for the last 50 years of accelerating change, driven by a lot of different things. Technology is a big part of it. We really are living in an unusual time, and that's changing a lot of things. When you then combine that with the demographic changes that we're currently going through, people are living longer. In this country, the boomer generation refuses to sort of do what people are supposed to do, which is exit the stage and let the next generation come on board. So we've got that kind of pressure.

Over the last 50 years we've gone from being isolated nations to a global economy and all of those things together do mean that we are in a time of some acceleration. In terms of the pressures to change. The problem of course is there are external forces for change. How fast change happens is about how people react to it. And so there are some groups that are embracing it and changing very fast. There are other groups who see those external forces as threatening and are actually resisting change.

[00:06:56] Lori: In your experience, is age related to that or is it mindset that's related to that?

[00:07:04] Joe: Traditionally, the theory is, is that age does have something to do with that, and as you get older you do tend to be more resistant to change. In my experience also about mindset. When I work with a group, so I keep kind of a informal count in my head and basically, it's about a third of the people in every group is all in. They're like, yeah, let's change. Let's see what's going to happen. We're excited at the future.

About a third of the group are typically people who are on the fence. A little bit cynical. Yeah, you're just some guy coming in talking about everything that I hear every day, make it relevant to me, and then I'm interested.

Then less than a third are the people who are just like, we're not going to change. Nothing's ever going to change and don't bother me. And that's consistent about groups, no matter the age, really.

[00:07:52] Lori: Very interesting. So, you bring up another really good point here and so please share your experience but traditionally thinking about our career path, that's about getting a degree or learning a trade, then working in your chosen field, then getting started in a company and gradually moving to the next company as you are supposed to move up the so-called ladder. This way of living strikes us as putting all your workforce eggs in one unstable basket. And so from a futurist standpoint, what does it all mean for the future of career tracks in general?

[00:08:31] Joe: So you're right. I mean, you've identified that is something, it's fairly global, at least in terms of the Western developed world. That story that we tell ourselves. The conversation that futurists are currently having is, when will jobs disappear? We actually, we as sort of a group, are really fascinated by the idea that the changes, the disruptions that are going on have already ended that idea of a career. Nobody works for a company for 40 years and gets the gold watch anymore and the pension. It's opened up this world of gigs and side hustles and everything else, and in the not-too-distant future, the whole idea of a job could change radically. It could be as almost as old fashioned as having a horse and buggy. You would think about what you did in a completely different way.

[00:09:16] Lori: Before the industrial automation and all of that starting. People worked in family businesses. So you took on the family trade or whatever that was, and you continued to do that. From that thinking, is entrepreneurs in general going to be more like way back when? Or what does it look like when you say having a career track?

[00:09:42] Nola: No jobs.

[00:09:44] Lori: Yeah. What does that exactly mean?

[00:09:46] Nola: What does no jobs mean for entrepreneurship?

[00:09:48] Joe: Yeah. Once again, and remembering that, as I said in the beginning, prediction is a very bad profession to be in, but I think what it means is, exactly what you said to start. This old model has been completely disrupted and it will continue to be disrupted. There will certainly for a long time be big companies who will hire people as employees, and that's not going to disappear overnight. But the opportunities to find your passion and then figure out how you make a living through your passion, at least part of the time, is increased.

The ability for an entrepreneur to scale up and down quickly. You have a project and say you need 10,000 partners. You can find them because of technology and some of the other things that are possible. And you might do that for six months and then after that you might go back to whatever that solo activity is that that you're going to create. And I guess in some ways that might sound frightening because it is once again, about chaos and embracing the chaos. But I do think it goes back to what you're talking about. There was a time before industrialization where people were tended to be artisans. There were two or three things. You were really good at. But you also know how to do a lot of other stuff. And so your quote job would change by the seasons, by what was necessary, by what opportunity was out there.

And so I do think that's where we're going when I say the idea of a job is going to radically change in the future. And I do think for entrepreneurs, that's a great opportunity. Because I think they're the ones leading the way. They've already got one foot into that future, and so as they continue to figure out how to navigate it, they'll expand their possibilities.

[00:11:24] Nola: Well, people who do want to expand their careers and their income streams through a side business. My question is how can they spot opportunities within these trends emerging out of the chaos?

[00:11:37] Joe: See if I can give you a succinct answer to that question. Because I know it's really the core of what your listeners are probably interested in.

From a futurist point of view, what we do, I'll talk a little bit about what we do and then maybe entrepreneurs can think about how they apply it. We constantly are wading through all of this noise that's out there. Trying to figure out what of it is real, what of it is hype, what is a passing fad? So that's one of the things that you do. You just immerse yourself in the noise and after a while you begin to figure out what's useful in that information and what's not. And as an entrepreneur, you're obviously looking for what's the next opportunity? What's the idea that's out there?

Maybe an example. In 2007, Apple introduced the first iPhone. Now, it wasn't the first smartphone. They had been around for a while, but nobody had embraced them for whatever reason, in part because they weren't sexy. Apple saw that opportunity. They took the,

[00:12:32] Lori: Well, they were huge.

[00:12:33] Joe: Yeah. They were also, yeah, they were big. And part of it was just Apple came along at the right time. They got, the audience was the right age. They saw that opportunity, they took it. What no one imagined at the time was that that would spawn a business like Uber, for instance, which only exists because of smartphones. You have to have the phone that knows where you are, that can the blah blah, blah, and that's what you want to do as an entrepreneur is see a trend and then play a game essentially of imagination. What might happen because of that? If you were the person who said, wow, because of cell phones. I know where people are and I know how to get in touch with them immediately, I could take on the cab companies. I could deliver food to people's doors. In countries that didn't have a lot of infrastructure, the cell phone completely eliminated traditional banks because someone saw that as an opportunity. So that's how you use this. You look at the trends and say, what's a possibility that might be an unexpected use?

[00:13:30] Lori: Well, yeah. I think part of the challenge though, is recognizing the trend versus recognizing the fad.

[00:13:38] Nola: And the noise.

[00:13:40] Lori: Yeah. In your experience, could you give us kind of a head start in imagining what the future of or the trends are leading up to for business and kind of what do you see as potential entrepreneurial opportunities that might be on the horizon?

[00:14:00] Joe: The way you get to the real trends as opposed to the flashy fads is you look at numerous trends and talk about what's the shape of the direction we're taking. For instance, the idea of remote work, that was not a new idea in 2020. People have been talking about it for a long time, and of course the challenge wasn't that it wasn't possible. For a while, it, it had not only become possible recently because of advances in the internet and things like that, the challenge was the mindset. Middle managers didn't know how to manage people who weren't in the room with them. When they suddenly had to do that, though, they figured out how to do it. And I think that's an interesting example to sort of think about where work is going. It is much more dispersed. Location is much less important. And now, and that doesn't mean everybody's going to continue from home. People are going back in the office. That'll ebb and flow. But this idea that all work was located in a specific place is from the 19th century, and we're going to increasingly challenge that idea. So, if you're thinking about what's possible, that's one of the places you look. This idea that geography isn't nearly as important as it used to be. And you're seeing that across the board. People are moving to small towns, all of the things that we, we've seen in the last couple years.

The other thing in terms of how you think about the trends, so geography doesn't matter as much anymore. On the flip side, geography is going to be more important than it ever was, which is the interesting part of how we kind of think with two different ideas at the same time. As these people move away from big cities, which is increasingly going to happen, then one of the things they're looking for is community. We're seeing a huge shift back to I want to be part of a community. Now, some of that community can be virtual. But it's also going to be local. And one of the shifts we're seeing is much more focus on being a member of a community, volunteering at the local level. If you're building a business or looking for opportunity, anything that builds community is increasingly going to be really important in the next couple of decades, at least. Because we spent so long moving away from that, that we're now moving back into this idea of community.

The other thing, of course, that will drive a lot of these opportunities is the demographic shift. And futurists are always interested in how that's going to play out. Those of us who are boomers are ultimately going to exit the stage kicking and screaming. And so to understand what the next 20 years of trends will be, we start looking at, we're past the millennials, we're now talking about Gen Z. And who are they and what formed them and what are they interested in? And some of the things that is really interesting is they're digital natives 2.0. And so they're digital makers. They know how to do podcasting. They know how to use their phone to make, do TikTok and all of that stuff and make movies, things that those of us 20 years ago couldn't do on our own. So once again, there's that whole sort of how they use these tools and this new technology that liberates one person or a small group of people to actually do much bigger projects.

Those are just three of the, the ideas that I see on the horizon that are going to open up a lot of different opportunities for folks either as entrepreneurs or as side hustles.

[00:17:10] Nola: Joe, you've led creative teams at Walt Disney Imagineering's elite Blue Sky Studio, to Imagineer the future of entertainment. What was that like?

[00:17:20] Joe: Disney's an incredible place to work. They are just amazingly creative, smart people. I, and I was very lucky to get the opportunity to work there when it came to helping them think about the future. It was both the best and the worst possible place to be.

[00:17:37] Lori: Really?

[00:17:38] Joe: Yeah. Well, much of what futurists do is really about storytelling. We use a lot of research and data, but at the end of the day, to make the future real, you have to turn it into stories that people can understand. At a place like Disney. The minute I would say that to someone, they were like, yeah, no problem. We got you. Because that's what they do. They're storytellers. As opposed to working with a lot of corporate clients who you say story and they get, oh, we don't know how to do that, we feel uncomfortable. So that's part of it, is learning how to be comfortable with this idea that you can be a storyteller.

The downside was, that in some ways, Walt Disney created much of the future in the 1960s. If you know much about the history, when he first opened the first park, he also had a television show, and one of the regular episodes was called Tomorrowland. And he would create these shows that would imagine the future. Imagine going to space, imagine going to the moon, all sorts of technology-based futures. It was really in researching Walt's life that I understood this whole idea of what it meant to create the future. That's where I got inspired to become a futurist. But because of that tradition, the Disney company sort of thinks they own the future to a certain degree. But, and I will say, and it's maybe getting off the track, but it took me about five years at Disney to convince them that we should be doing foresight work in the company. Which was really odd, right? Because that's what Walt wanted to build an experimental prototype city of tomorrow. He wanted to create the future. And it was an interesting disconnect from their history to bring them back around to that idea that you really can do this. And they're a huge, great storytelling organization. So who better to think about how you might imagine creating the future? So it was an interesting challenge. We got there because once again, they embraced it. It was in their DNA, I think. And a lot of what for that kind of organization, which is huge and leading in their field, a lot of the futurist's work is what aren't you seeing? And I don't want to suggest Disney as a dinosaur in any sense, but it's like the dinosaur, the little tiny mammal. You know, who's that little mammal out there that you haven't seen yet, who's going to come along and challenge you? And so that's a lot of work that you do with a lot of corporations. They know everything about their field. They know who their competition is. What they don't know is that there might be some guy who was involved in the internet who made a ton of money and suddenly decided one day he wanted to be an auto manufacturer who had absolutely no experience making cars. And the next thing you know, GM and Ford are being challenged by Tesla. That's what you try to do a lot of the time, is just, where are your blind spots and how do you open up to avoid those?

[00:20:18] Lori: When you said helping Disney think about the future, I was thinking they've become, or at least at one point, I remember them being a model of how organizations could brainstorm so they could use their people to come up with ideas. And what I had heard is you go into a room and you're throwing up ideas and you can't have a naysayer in there. It's not about, that won't work. It's about thinking the amazing whatever idea out of the box, just following that. Is that what the Blue Sky Studio was or is that totally something not even connected?

[00:20:56] Joe: So Blue Sky refers to the way of thinking that you're talking about. The brainstorming approach that is embedded within imaginary certainly, and a lot of other places in Disney. And the idea is that when you start on any project, there are no constraints. Doesn't mean they don't exist. You just don't worry about them. And when you work in that environment all the time and everybody works in that environment, it actually changes the outcome.

Give you the story that I tell everyone to help explain that. For a long time when I was a producer, I worked with what we called the interactive group. And we would build experiences that where the guests could interact with something. We used a lot of technology and a lot of it was cutting edge stuff. And we had creative people who would come up with crazy ideas. And then we had the engineers who had to make them happen. And I remember one time I went to this engineer that I was working with, with some pitch we wanted to do, and I did, like creative people did, got excited, waived my hands, finished my whole pitch. And I said, what did you think? And he said, well, you violated every law of physics. Of course, you know, my smart Alec response was, well, is that a felony or misdemeanor? What are we talking about here? And he shook his head and he walked away. He came back about two days later. And he said, look, I can't do exactly what you want, but I can do this.

And that's what Blue Sky thinking does, right? Instead of constantly thinking, oh, there are all these reasons we can't do something, it trains people to actually imagine how they stretch themselves. And once again, that was key to being a futurist, because that's what futurists are trying to do is get you to think beyond the oh, we've always done it that way, so we can't change, and give you the opportunity. So that's how the blue-sky thinking was so very valuable for me in terms of learning how to do what I do today.

[00:22:45] Nola: What action steps would you suggest for individual aspiring entrepreneurs to do in order to imagineer their own future?

[00:22:55] Joe: Sure, and, and the good news, anybody can be a futurist. I probably shouldn't admit that, but it's true. It starts with curiosity. The very first thing you have to do is expose yourself to more sources of information, and sometimes that's a little overwhelming, but, but quit reading the magazines or the websites that you always read and pick ones that seem totally outside of your field, and you find an idea that seems to have nothing to do with what you're doing.

Then you want to do your own kind of blue sky imagining. And the challenge with the future is, because it doesn't exist, it's hard to create a picture of it. That's why story becomes so incredibly important. For an entrepreneur, a person trying to find a new side hustle or whatever, I always suggest think about five, 10 years into the future and think about trying to create a story where you're the hero or heroine of the story, right? Because it's about you, it's about what you want to do. And then build a story about what might, in many cases it's, it's your preferred future. This idea of if everything went great, how would that work out? And you begin to tell yourself that story. We call those Strategic Narratives because the purpose of that story is not to go well, this is the future. The purpose of that story is then to deconstruct it. How would we get there? What are the things standing between today and that future that we would have to see change? Which of those can we change, which requires someone else to change? And those we're going to wait and see, oh look, somebody invented a, a smartphone, now I can go take over the cab business. And so that's why it works. So that's one way you use the story.

The other way is if you're trying to think about what new product or what new service people might want in 10 years, don't tell a story about yourself, but tell a story about a different character. What it will be, depending upon who you think your audience is going to be. What does a middle-aged entrepreneur look like in 2032? What are they going to be doing? What are they going to be interested in? And as you begin to imagine their life, then you start to go, oh, wait a minute. Here's an opportunity. There's a business opportunity there that we can start to move people in that direction. And the thing about story is it makes sense of stuff that is incredibly complicated. And it is true that the more complicated the world is, the more we need stories in order to make sense. And that's really what foresight once again, is. It's about making sense of possibilities so that you can then discover where you want to place your bet. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong, but at least you have more knowledge when you approach it from that point of view.

[00:25:26] Lori: Joe, some of what you're talking about reminds me of, currently there's the whole N F T and Web 3.0. Some people are really negative on it, but when I learned about it, I saw opportunity for a lot of people that I know in the industry that do web development, designers, beyond just art. I saw architecture and interior design. I have a friend who does pattern work and tried to make fabric with her design. I saw possibilities, but some people look at it and say, No, that not going to happen. Is that an example of kind of that blue sky thinking and then building a narrative if you were looking at what opportunity you, not doing NFT, but going into that whole new dimension?

[00:26:22] Joe: Yeah, no, absolutely. I'll give you a great example. Right now, there's a huge explosion of platforms online that use artificial intelligence to create graphic images. Artwork. You guys may have have heard of some of those. In the last year, they've just gone nuts, right? So I have a friend and a colleague who is both a futurist and a designer. And the big controversy of course, is designers are like, oh no, the robots are taking over. We won't have any jobs anymore. He decided to learn how these tools really work. And in the last four months he has produced so much incredible artwork. Just gorgeous, gorgeous stuff. And he's done it by using the artificial intelligence as a new partner. And that's, I think, what you need to think about, particularly when you think about some of these things that are related to artificial intelligence, robotics. And it's not about being replaced, it's about opening up the opportunity for really fascinating partnerships. And, and this guy, I mean this guy's amazing artist. He didn't need that to be able to create great art, but his art has gotten so much better because he's using those tools. And I think that's, as opposed to looking at these things and going, oh no, they are a threat. The question with technology particularly is, what new partnerships can I create working with this technology? And I think that's where our future lies.

[00:27:48] Lori: I love that. And that speaks to that leaning in, getting curious, rather than stopping and saying, no, which brings up a follow up question. Sometimes technology or an idea, is ahead of the curve, so much so that when you introduce it, people can't even wrap their head around it. And so your great idea gets shelved and maybe sometime later somebody else picks it up. So to me, that fine line between being so far ahead of the curve and being right on that cusp of opening up. Any suggestions or thoughts related to that?

[00:28:29] Joe: What you just described, I think is the difference between futurists and successful entrepreneurs. We're over the past, the curve. We're way past the curve most of the time. So when you hear us talk, you want to reign us in a little bit to find that timing. Timing is always the challenge. As human beings, we radically underestimate the power of new technology and overestimate how soon it will be adopted. So for most people, the real key, the way you get around that if you want to create a new product or service, is you prototype. You constantly prototype. You come up with this idea that seems crazy, try it at a much smaller level so you don't bet the whole farm on it. And as you do that, you'll keep prototyping. And even if you're ahead of the time, the longer you do that, you'll start to make the idea better and the time will ultimately catch up with you. So it is an iterative process. But yeah, there are plenty of people who have been too far ahead of their time and have had great ideas that 10 years, 20 years, sometimes 30 years later, everybody was like, of course we need that. There's a risk in betting on the future.

[00:29:38] Lori: There is. Tell us, Joe, what lasting impact would you love to make on the world?

[00:29:44] Joe: Oh wow. Uh, when my daughter was six years old, out of the blue one day, she said to me, do you know what your job is? And I was like, well, this is, I don't know where this conversation's going. I said, no. She said, your job is to make the world better for me.

[00:29:56] Lori: Oh.

[00:29:58] Joe: Yeah. As a parent, there's a lot of guilt associated with a comment like that, right? And while I don't have the power or influence, what I really hope to do is one, dispel people's fear of the future so that they can be better at making better tomorrows. I don't want to be naive or Pollyanna, but I do believe we can make the future better. But it starts by not being afraid. And so what I try to do always is just encourage people to be bold, to dream, and to try out new ideas. If I have any impact, that's the best I can ever hope.

[00:30:30] Lori: I love that.

[00:30:31] Nola: I love that too. I so agree. Yay. Thank you, Joe, for being our guest. If someone wants to learn more about you, your book or your services, where should they go or how can they connect with you?

[00:30:45] Joe: Well, even though this is now part of the past, I do have a website. You know, nobody has websites anymore. It's easy to find. It's JoeTankersley.com and that'll give you some insight into the different projects. You can learn more about the book, Reimagining Our Tomorrows, Making Sure Your Future Doesn't suck. And I would love people to look into that. It's an attempt, once again to create that sense of optimism for the future. Thank you, guys, for having me tonight. This has been a wonderful conversation. I've really enjoyed it.

[00:31:13] Nola: Yeah, it has been fun. Well, listener, we hope today's episode helped you think about starting a side business in a whole new light.

[00:31:22] Lori: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We hope it inspires and encourages you to start your entrepreneurial journey so you can create your best and most exciting business and life. If you found the
information helpful, let us know by posting here where you are listening, or on our Facebook page.

[00:31:41] Nola: Not sure how to turn your idea into a profitable side business? Contact us at stickybrandlab.com/contact. We'd be happy to help you.

[00:31:50] Lori: Be sure to come back next Tuesday and every Tuesday for another informative, inspiring, and motivating episode. And remember, actions create results. So tap into your desire to create a business and brand you love by taking 1% action every day. Small steps, big effects.

[OUT-TAKE]
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[00:32:11] Nola: What action steps would you suggest expiring ... Expiring..
[00:32:17] Lori: Expiring. You're gone.
[00:32:22] Nola: Well, that's a future. Okay. Uh, take two.